MotoGP cost cutting -- effective NOW

[jimboecv]

oThe factorys will supply ecuw's with lower rev limits.  Poor teams will stay slow. Forget what I said

[gm2]

electronically controlled ohlins shocks were brand new in the latter half of last season.  to my knowledge the only bikes that tried running them in competition were the factory yamaha world superbikes.  ...they've since been banned there, too.  preemptive move by FIM.

i'm on board with fewer electronic aids, but launch control would not be at the top of my list.  fer chrissake, the TC systems have become predictive.

(yeah, there'd be no easy/fair/cost-effective way to limit TC in time for this season.)

[derby]

(yeah, there'd be no easy/fair/cost-effective way to limit TC in time for this season.)

f1 had to go to a spec ecu to eliminate traction control.

[Speeddog]

Seems that the brake rule was prohibiting Ceramic composite, not Carbon-Carbon.
So it seems Brembo isn't hosed.

But no *real* cost savings now. 

Interesting info:
http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Feb/090218i.htm

[BastrdHK]

How will they regulate the electronics reduction?  These things are so small now and seems it would be easy to hide a few aids if teams wanted to cheat.  How do they distinguish between "routine maintenance" and swapping/rebuilding parts?

[EvilSteve]

This is the same path that F1 went down, it's a no win situation. They keep trying to control racing with rules; it doesn't work. They need to set budget caps and then focus on making them work. That way, the team who can afford Rossi can't spend as much on development and vice versa. If they want electronics then they sacrifice somewhere else. What makes racing great is it's unpredictability and the struggle of it all, having everyone on the same bike is bullshit just as having everyone driving the same car in F1 is NASCAR.

[derby]

and how do you propose they enforce the budget caps? 

[Speeddog]

Every team gets allotted 50 million MotoGPBux, and must  buy everything with them. Problem solved. 
<Ain't no way budget cap's gonna work. IMO >

[EvilSteve]

It's easier to enforce technical limitations but the only way to easily enforce them is to have everyone on the same ECU, same tires, same gas, limited/no testing, blah blah blah. All that effort going into making things the same. I'm not some financial guru here guys, I just think that a cap should be set and then they should spend their energy making sure the cap is adhered to. There would need to be a discussion obviously and people who know GP racing and where the money goes would need to work it out.

How does it work in professional sport in the US? It's not as though I'm suggesting something that's never been tried before.

[gm2]

same ECU, same tires, same gas, limited/no testing, blah blah blah. All that effort going into making things the same.

which fundamentally goes against the spirit of GP racing.

[Jester]

How exactly is this prototype racing if they begin to dumb down all these bikes.  I'm all for no traction control, but to be entirely honest, I have a feeling that the SBK's will end up being as fast and as good as GP bikes if they remove better brakes, no TC, already lower displacement, limited testing, limited engine usage, etc.  I'm not sure GP will have much point to the series if you aren't allowed to push the envelope with technology.  If the GP manufacturers have as good of bikes that you can buy on the street, then why waste money on this series.  The SBK's are already within a couple seconds of the back markers on the GP field.

I mean isn't it likely that superbikes will in theory have more technology usage than GP bikes next year?  Yeah you may have carbon frames etc, but SBK's will have traction control, more displacement, and already sporting engines that are built for relative longevity.  If the GP bikes can't stay far enough ahead of SBK's, then from a racer's standpoint, I would rather just pack my bags and go to world sbk anyway.  More elbow to elbow racing and probably a bike that is just as good or arguably better and more refined.

With the loss of traction control, its my opinion that the Ducati as currently built will have some issues.  That bike isn't really the best sorted bike imo.  I think Casey has mastered the use of that TC system and I really don't see him being as good a rider after they strip TC off that bike.  He won't be able to ride the bike anywhere near the way he does now... or I don't see it anyway.  I'm aware all the riders will have to adjust, but it just seems the Ducati, as we've seen for a while now, needs to be flogged all to hell and requires the rider to just believe in the TC system.  Nicky has already commented on it.  Take away that TC system and I don't see that bike being all that good.  Stoner mastered it, give him credit, but its gone brother.

[mitt]

IMO, motogp wasn't broke, so they shouldn't be fixing it.  Last year was some of the best racing in my brief moto histroy.

F1 was broke - boring racing, and impossible to pass. For me, F1 changes were more for competition and less for cost, but I am not an F1 expert.

I have another way to cut racing costs - how about you limit the amount of equipment that can travel from track to track to 1 cargo container?  How about limiting the number of team members to say 6?  Lets get back to the idea of 1965, like Kevin Cameron, where some gp teams had 3 people and drove from European country to country in the back of a van with 1 bike.  How much of a season's cost is really in development, and how much is in the logistics of shipping 8 bikes + 3 semi trucks + 100 people from exotic country to exotic country every week or two.

mitt

[ducpainter]

which fundamentally goes against the spirit of GP racing.

Dorna has no spirit.

<snip>
I have another way to cut racing costs - how about you limit the amount of equipment that can travel from track to track to 1 cargo container?  How about limiting the number of team members to say 6?  Lets get back to the idea of 1965, like Kevin Cameron, where some gp teams had 3 people and drove from European country to country in the back of a van with 1 bike.  How much of a season's cost is really in development, and how much is in the logistics of shipping 8 bikes + 3 semi trucks + 100 people from exotic country to exotic country every week or two.

mitt

That's the way all racing was then. There were no garages. You changed 350s to 250s in the back of a van, and then back again, so the bike could be ridden in two classes.

I think you're on the right track, but the public won't accept less of a spectacle IMO.

[EvilSteve]

F1 was broken yes, but it was broken *because* of the regulations not the other way around. It was precisely because they implemented restrictions on just about everything and homogenized the cars that passing became so difficult. I realize the F1 thing is a little OT but my fear is that we're going down the same path with MGP. Once you make all the bikes the same, the only difference is the rider. What does that mean for GP? The best rider will usually win (the best rider should win but the races become processional). What does that mean for the sport, look at F1, they're now talking about a medal system rather than points (so retarded) and reverse grids to spice the racing up (totally retarded). The minute you make all the bikes the same, their theoretical performance maximum is the same but worse, their performance characteristics are all the same too. That means, for a given track and corner, all the bikes behave exactly the same way except for the rider. In a car I think the homogenization is a lot more noticeable because the driver plays less of a part in the performance equation but logically, if they're all the same, how does that improve passing? Not only that but in F1 they've had the same guy designing all the tracks for ages so all the tracks are the same too.

I think Jester made a very good point as well - what's the point of prototype racing if they're all the same?

The thing about WSBK is that it has built in limits, F1 & GP don't. Because WSBK and WSS are based on machines that have to be homologated, the manufacturers have only so far they can go.

[MendoDave]

They should just let them make any kind of Motorcycle they want to get around the track the fastest. Let the factory figure out what works & what doesn't. Same with F1.