Bike sat for two weeks -- not starting: FIXED!!!!

[He Man]

Thats the same as using starting fluid if you dont have open way to get gasoline right now. alcohol would work just as well.

is your area rather humid? I left my bike with out oil and side cases for about a month while i was getting the starter replaced and what did the trick was throwing in some fuel treatment and slushing it around. it would cycle for a whole minute and just kill the battery.

[needtorque]

Starter fluid and alcohol are more likely to blow up in your face if the timing is wrong though. (backfire through the throttle bodies) Gasoline is much less flammable and I have never had a problem with it.

[He Man]

Starter fluid and alcohol are more likely to blow up in your face if the timing is wrong though. (backfire through the throttle bodies) Gasoline is much less flammable and I have never had a problem with it.

good point, he mention he was backfiring a lot. it could come through the intake valve and up into your face as it ignites.

not sure how the side cases affect starting, but the bike only sat for 2weeks. it shouldnt of caused anything, could it be possible that the side cases werent sealed correctly and alot of pressure is being lost through the gaps?

[needtorque]

good point, he mention he was backfiring a lot. it could come through the intake valve and up into your face as it ignites.

not sure how the side cases affect starting, but the bike only sat for 2weeks. it shouldnt of caused anything, could it be possible that the side cases werent sealed correctly and alot of pressure is being lost through the gaps?

Compression is contained between the top of the piston and the bottom of the cylinder head.  The side cases would only cause lost crankcase pressure and that really would not affect starting. (maybe leak a little oil but other than that nothing) 

The timing sensor setup is based partially on the case covers and that is his concern with the timing.

[mitt]

I would still put my money on a bad battery.  Jumping off a car battery might have been OK, but only if it is hooked up really well, with good cables.   If the original battery is dead, then go ahead and get a new one, activate it and then top it off with a charge.

Also, if the air temperature there is still low (read 30's and 40's), your bike might not like to start anyway.  Did it start before after sitting in cold weather?  My 2003 m1000 doesn't start well after sitting for 1 day even at 50deg, and lower than that I might as well forget it.

[DucHead]

I would still put my money on a bad battery.  Jumping off a car battery might have been OK, but only if it is hooked up really well, with good cables.   If the original battery is dead, then go ahead and get a new one, activate it and then top it off with a charge.

Also, if the air temperature there is still low (read 30's and 40's), your bike might not like to start anyway.  Did it start before after sitting in cold weather?  My 2003 m1000 doesn't start well after sitting for 1 day even at 50deg, and lower than that I might as well forget it.

I'm betting its a combination of a bad battery and something that I did.

I checked plugs for spark yesterday, and I have fire.  My problem must be related to the timing sensor -- it was out of spec a lot.  I re-checked it this afternoon, and the gap is 0.711mm -- within spec.  I know it doesn't take much, but I'm stumped.  I never disconnected the stator, just unbolted it and left it attached to the bike.  When I reinserted the timing sensor, I did so when the cover was off the bike, so I know its positioned correctly with the o-ring seated.  The only thing I "changed" was the air gap of the sensor, and I now have that shimmed to within spec.

However, it is STILL backfiring (wasn't last night) and will not start.  Even with a car battery (car not running), it is not turning over fast. 

Last night I went over all the steps in my head:
drain coolant
detach coolant hoses
remove timing sensor (left attached and placed in zip-loc bag)
drain oil
remove clutch slave
remove shifter linkage
remove crank inspection cover
bolt-on case puller
remove cover bolts
pull cover
flip over
unbolt alternator wire clamp
unbolt stator bolts
remove stator (placed in zip-loc bag and supported with bungees)
take cover to bench to remove water pump cover, rotor, spacers and bearings.

Only one of these items has to do with timing, and I've addressed that.

Nothing on the clutch side could cause this.

Damn.

The backfiring worries me and I think is the key to the problem.  I has NEVER backfired before, and was running great before I removed the make the beast with two backsing covers.  I am now regretting that move.

[He Man]

Compression is contained between the top of the piston and the bottom of the cylinder head.  The side cases would only cause lost crankcase pressure and that really would not affect starting. (maybe leak a little oil but other than that nothing) 

The timing sensor setup is based partially on the case covers and that is his concern with the timing.

im a dumbass, i should of known that. its the basics of how a compression engine works.  doh.

When did you respec the timing sensor? Before it wouldnt start or after it wouldnt start? if prior, maybe you can try putting resetting it to the original out of spec gap on it.

[needtorque]

It really, really sounds like the timing is off.  The backfiring is what makes me say that.  An incorrect air gap would not change the timing it would either lose all spark or have intermittent spark which could cause backfiring.  SO, how are you checking the air gap?  What is the method? Or, take off the side cover again going through the exact steps and when you reassemble instead of using the paper gasket use some ultra grey silicone gasket maker/sealer.  I used this on a 916 engine and had zero issue with leaking.

[DucHead]

It really, really sounds like the timing is off.  The backfiring is what makes me say that.  An incorrect air gap would not change the timing it would either lose all spark or have intermittent spark which could cause backfiring.  SO, how are you checking the air gap?  What is the method? Or, take off the side cover again going through the exact steps and when you reassemble instead of using the paper gasket use some ultra grey silicone gasket maker/sealer.  I used this on a 916 engine and had zero issue with leaking.

First off, I have the shop manual, so that's where I'm getting my info (+ Speeddog).

To check the air gap, I remove the inspection plug below the water pump and inserting timing gauges.

Spec is 0.6-0.8mm.  I re-re-checked the gap this afternoon, and it is 0.711mm.

Removing the gasket and re-assembly is moot (at the moment) since I no longer have the same shim thickness.

Just for shits and grins, I did order all three sizes: 0.6, 0.8, and 1mm.  If worse comes to worst, I'll remove the paper gasket and replace the filed shim with the 1mm that was OEM.

All this for powdercoated case covers.         

[needtorque]

I'm not trying to be a dick promise.  I have found that usually when I work on something and then it does not work properly if I retrace my steps and look hard I usually find some stuipd little mistake that is the cause of my problem.

[DucHead]

I'm not trying to be a dick promise.  I have found that usually when I work on something and then it does not work properly if I retrace my steps and look hard I usually find some stuipd little mistake that is the cause of my problem.

  I've written on this board several times about problems that were always the direct consequence of my stupidity.  This the the premise from which I start when trying to fix my bike!  What did I do to cause this to happen? 

I didn't think you were trying to be a dick.

[needtorque]

  I've written on this board several times about problems that were always the direct consequence of my stupidity.  This the the premise from which I start when trying to fix my bike!  What did I do to cause this to happen? 

I didn't think you were trying to be a dick.

Good, I could not tell from your last post and it is hard to read tone of voice on the internet so I just wanted to be sure that I was not coming off as an asshole.  Just trying my best to help.  I am always worried about that b/c my wife and others tell me constantly I can be a real asshole.

[DucHead]

Long story short:  When Nick (Speeddog) suggests you do something, do it.  Do all of it.

Speeddog suggested I check the ground bolt on the engine case for corrosion and tightness.  And, I marched out to the garage and gave a a visual inspection, and wiped some grease from it with my finger.  So, all is well.     

WRONG!!!

He also said to make sure it was tight.  Well, on a second look -- with a wrench --- it was loose...very loose!!!!  I tightened it, hooked up the car battery (car not running), and on the fourth crank....

IT LIVES!!!

     

Thanks to all for your help and ideas, and especially to Nick!!!!!

[DucHead]

Good, I could not tell from your last post and it is hard to read tone of voice on the internet so I just wanted to be sure that I was not coming off as an asshole.  Just trying my best to help.  I am always worried about that b/c my wife and others tell me constantly I can be a real asshole.

Nope.

If I came off terse, it was because I was going from the computer to the garage, sometimes quickly and I was getting discouraged.  The last thing that I wanted was a shop charge for some repair that was necessitated by my powdercoating the covers!! 

[needtorque]

Gratz to the fix.  good to see you are up and running again.