Rizoma rearset vs Sato rearset

[Vindingo]

for the poster's s4r the passenger pegs are separate anyway, not all in one giant bracket like the dual swinger bikes.

that is true!  I was thinking S4...

[S21FOLGORE]

If I ever damage my own rearsets, these are high on MY list (Gilles.tooling)

http://www.gillestooling.com/produkt_dateien/presentation_engl/VCR_D02_presentation_engl.pdf

My Gilles ...




No problem at all with installation (the instruction came with the set was clear and detailed with picture).
The foot peg bar has really sharp and deep knurling that does not slip at all. (also without folding up hinge, it gives you far better feedback.)
Rear brake is much more usable with these set (much easier to control).
Can be set as reversed shift pattern (though it would somewhat limit the range of foot peg position adjustment).

[stopintime]

Great 

Was it delivered with the rubber mount, on/around the main bolt?

Do you have a link to where you got them and possibly the price?

[S21FOLGORE]

Purchased from Hardracing, the price was $539 (plus S&H). The lowest price I could find.The link is here
http://www.hardracing.com/GILLESRS.htm

The rubber mount in the main bolt area is not used with gilles set. Here, this is another vender's site that provides enough detailed photos.
http://www.oppracing.com/images/13461-gilles-tooling-vcr-rear-sets-ducati-monster-s2r-2004-2008-s4r-rs-2003-2008/

The set comes as photographed, and goes on the bike just that way.

[S21FOLGORE]

Regarding those rubber bushings ...

Today, at a local Ducati dealership,one of the service guy looked at my bike and told me that all the rear set for S*R  have design flaw, except for Ducati Performance rear set (which are actually made in Japan, they are sold as AELLA brand, produced by Kasuno motorcycle in Kyoto) and Cycle Cat.

The thing is, on S*R, the main bolts "move(rotate)" with swingarm pivot shaft. (that's why there's huge rubber bushing on stock ones.)
DP and CC have sealed bearings (better design than original / less friction ).

Most aftermarket rear set omit this bushing (or bearing).
So, what 'd happen is that if you tighten them tight enough (so that bolts won't come loose), it binds up swing arm pivot, swing arm won't be able to move freely, in a long run, it causes the damage to pivot.
If they are loose enough so that they won't cause binding, they will come loose and fall off.

There are three options.
1) put the stock one back
2)get DP one ($928)
3)Get Gilles base plate machined out and fit bearings in it.

1) is cheapest. And it's guaranteed to work.
2) is (most)costly, but also work for sure.
3) is less coslty than 2). And there's plenty of material around main blot hole section, so it should probably work. But I'm looking at $200-350 (machining work and bearings), and I have to wait for a couple of weeks. (local machine shop is pretty backed up.)

One thing I (kinda) feel reluctant to go DP (AELLA) rear set is the position ...
They actually move foot pegs "forward".(or same as stock, just get higher)
10mm forward & 10mm up
0 mm forward & 10 mm up
0 mm forward & 20 mm up

That's it.

Very nicely / solidly built. Can be used with reversed shift pattern (somewhat important  to me). But, I just don't  know if I like the position. (even though I sat on S4RS with those rear set on ... for about 10 minutes)

Here's the picture
http://www.webike.net/sd/153224/100011101120/
 This is the one sold as "DP item".
(AELLA home page http://www.aella.jp/product/d_monster/index.html)

I've heard Sato does not have bushings also. Don't know about Rizoma.

[stopintime]

The rubber bushing is for vibration dampening purposes. Stock and CycleCat don't have any extra bearings.

The shaft rotates in the engine cases (?) and in the swing arm, by grease, no bearings there either. (AFAIK)
On my bike (CycleCat) there's a little bit of rotation felt on the large outside main nut.

The shaft has shoulders on it to prevent the issues your service guy mentioned. If, and only if, the main plate on the rear sets contacts the swingarm (washers) you will have the binding. THAT would be a design flaw. It would prevent the swingarm to move freely, it would rub the swingarm washers against the rearsets and it would make the shaft rotate more inside the engine cases than intended.

On stock and CycleCat rearsets there is a steel "tube"/spacer/thingy baked inside the rubber bushing - it will contact only the shoulder on the shaft, thus letting the swingarm rotate freely without rubbing against the rearsets.

Your service guy may be right, but then again some/all other rear sets might have avoided this issue by NOT making a design flaw. I don't know. It's interesting for sure!


As for your solution - forget about the bearings - maybe have a little material shaved off the main plate, leaving a raised narrow ring which contacts only the shaft shoulder, not the swingarm.

Second thoughts: I don't think the rearsets main plate will rub hard against the swingarm, the shaft shoulder will probably prevent that. Anyone care to comment?

[S21FOLGORE]

CycleCat don't have any extra bearings

I know stock one doesn't have bearings.
I don't (didn't) know about CC.
(He said CC and DP ones are only rear set that has proper design.)

shaft rotates in the engine cases (?) and in the swing arm

Exactly. And with the design like Gilles (and Sato,too (?)), shaft can not move.
If you have service manual CD, look at the diagram. Or just draw the picture yourself. The main thing is, with stock (and CC / DP ) design, shaft and base plate do NOT have direct contact. (shaft-metal collar(inside of rubber bushing)-washer-main bolt, they do have direct contact. Base plate (foot peg bracket) and main bolt / shaft are not touching.

On my bike (CycleCat) there's a little bit of rotation felt on the large outside main nut.

That's the way it should be. With Gilles design, it doesn't move at all.

some/all other rear sets might have avoided this issue by NOT making a design flaw. I don't know. It's interesting for sure!

I may be a bit cynical, but I "think" most after market parts company do this kind of thing knowingly ... it all comes down to profit. Fitting rubber bush + metal spacer or bearing with flange will increase production cost a lot , that pushes the price up close to $1000 (in case of Gilles), then it would narrow down the potential buyer market.
Omitting rubber bush cause some extra friction for sure. But it's not something the buyer would notice right away. He/she may not even notice it till the bike gets sold. And if it's really going to cause physical damage to pivot, it will be much ,much later. The chance of getting complain from(or sued by) customer is very slim. (The bike manufacturer, on the other hand, will have to deal with warranty and claim issues ... they have to look things differently. In other word, they have to be more responsible.)

As for my solution, most probably I put originals back.
Thanks for suggestion and taking your time.

[stopintime]

Hmmm...  If the large outside nut doesn't move, the shaft isn't moving either - unless it's rotating in the nut's threads. That must mean that the swingarm moves on the shaft - isn't that how it's supposed to be?
Of course, if the swingarm, as it moves, is rubbing against the rearsets base plate..... trouble after a while!

I don't think you're cynical - some aftermarket vendors probably are, or they just don't quite know what they're doing.
Both options are bad.

If it was me, I would try to modify the Gilles. Aren't they worth it?

[DucLeone]

the swingarm and shaft move (rotate) togheter as a solid piece (shaft is held in place by pinchbolt on chainside) the rear sets are mountd on engine (solidly) and on swingarm where the bolt screws onto inner tube of bushing making it solid, rubber bushing allows the swingarm to rotate a little .....
am i getting this right??

[stopintime]

the swingarm and shaft move (rotate) togheter as a solid piece (shaft is held in place by pinchbolt on chainside) the rear sets are mountd on engine (solidly) and on swingarm where the bolt screws onto inner tube of bushing making it solid, rubber bushing allows the swingarm to rotate a little .....
am i getting this right??

I don't know if that pinch bolt just keeps it from moving sideways OR actually keeps it tight (rotating with the swingarm).
I can't imagine the rubber bushing rotating.....

[S21FOLGORE]

At least, the shaft and bolts are supposed to be able to move together, a little bit, as the rear suspension strokes.
Any design that inhibit this movement cause extra friction, to say the least. (whether that extra friction is negligible or not, I can't tell. But knowing that there IS something causing extra friction doesn't make me feel good.)

By the way, I just remembered why I decided to get adjustable rear set in first place.
Firstly,the swingarm hit my left boot sole when going over the bump (I step on the peg with the ball of my feet most of the time.) Anybody has the same problem? It kinda bothers me, 'specially when it happens while going 'round the corner.
Secondly, the brake pedal is way too low for my liking. I adjusted the pedal to all the way up (with stock control) , but it was still too low.

Gilles has wide range of adjustment (probably wider than any other rear set out there) and it's infinitely adjustable, which is nice. ... I thought.

Now, there are people , like myself, who think " the foot pegs should be where the rider want them to be (therefore the wider the adjustment range , the better)."
And there are people who believe "the best foot peg location (best for "controlling the bike, not for rider comfort) for certain chassis can be figured out by physics and mathematics, so long as the seat position is not changed drastically, the pegs don't have to be moved a lot even for different (rider's) body size (therefore, three or four position adjustable rear set should be good enough for most riders ...)

[n4s]

  Do Rizoma's come with sealed bearings? Is there a design flaw? Sorry, just a little confused.. is it true that cyclecat and dp are the only rear sets that will work perfectly...? that would be a shame

[stopintime]

Do Rizoma's come with sealed bearings? Is there a design flaw? Sorry, just a little confused.. is it true that cyclecat and dp are the only rear sets that will work perfectly...? that would be a shame

Some rearsets (maybe Rizoma) have bearings in the gear shift- and brake levers.
I'm trying to get answers about the whole assembly movement/rotation questions by starting
a new thread in "Tech" http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=31180.new#new

- thus ending this thread jack and getting the experts' attention

 

[DarkMonster620]

I am shopping for rearsets and came across Sato's for the 696, except they claim they are down to their LAST 2, no more in production evar!!
http://www.satoracing.com/rearsetsmonster.htm

They wont fit your bike....

WTF?       They are much cheaper (more affordable) than Rizomas, considering PC-iing them since dislike the silver. Suggestions???!   

[Privateer]

sorry, little side note.

Anyone know if the Rizomas do or will come without black ano?  clear or polished or something?


thanks