SoCal Trackdays - Archive

[MetalDuc]

Great pics guys! I also appreciate the pointers sqweak is getting about what might have happened as I know I am learning from what you guys are saying.

[sqweak]

gm: I didn't hang off in the first session at all.  That session, i was starting to move a little, but it was probably like 1/8th -1/4th of a cheek.  I'm way too upright too.   Thanks for the tip on getting my weight back, I try to work on that but I've obviously got a lot left to go.  When I think of hugging the tank, I think of my knees and work to get those out.  That still needs some work itself, but I'll be sure to also think of shifting my whole body back too.  I hope these are all things they'll help me with at CSS  Level 2

lester: You might be right, but I don't think I did that.  I still think in steps, so I roll off the throttle, brake, get the bike over, and then get back on.  It certainly "felt" like the rear went out first before I lost the whole thing, and judging by where the bike ended up and my recollection it happened mid or late corner...after where I would logically chop it for a hot entry.  Maybe I subconsciously cut the throttle when the back went and that washed the front like you described?  Andy @ WCGP said basically the same thing, that he's wrecked in the same corner because of an off the throttle move and that he's sure that's probably what happened to me. *shrug*

thanks for the input guys!  I'll stop dwelling eventually.

[sqweak]

also, despite my *horrible* form in those pics, in that second one my puck can't be more than a half inch off the ground.  If I had actually gotten off the seat properly I think I'd be dragging now.  I know it's silly to be hung up on that, but it's a nice visual reassurance that I'm progressing.

[gm2]

of course knee dragging is some sort of measurement and undeniably fun.. but try not to make it a goal (not really what you were saying, i know).  even by Level 3, which is when you finally get into body position, it really all comes back to throttle control, aka keeping the bike settled.  concentrate on that.  lap times and knees don't matter.

as for the scoot back thing, this is something i didn't know for the longest time.. i was humping the tank for about a year.  then when i finally learned it it felt *really* wrong for most of a day.  i'd scoot back, forward, back, forward, back.. obviously the bike was pretty unhappy under me.  almost all of us are big enough that we need to be all the way back.. or at least not flat against the tank.  i nearly commented on this to courtney while we were @ CSS but in the spirit of how they do things i decided not to..

[Speeddog]

Scoot back for large folks on a real track bike, right?

Courtney's pretty light, I suspect it won't make much difference for her?

[gm2]

Scoot back for large folks on a real track bike, right?

Courtney's pretty light, I suspect it won't make much difference for her?

perhaps not, and yeah 'scoot back' is all relative.. but she was as far forward as possible.  exaggerated.  i haven't seen misti hurst at CSS this year but AMA is over in september -- if she's instructing in October she's a good reference.  she's no giant, probably shorter than courtney.  but she's "in" the bike as much as possible.

this is as much about weight distribution as it is subsequent arm position.  you want to be pushing only horizontally on the bars.  downward pressure doesn't do anything (duh..) and makes your arms stiff.  you end up fighting the bike.  bad.

i'm sure this is news to no one, but i re-learn this stuff constantly.  i'll go through a couple sessions, see a photo and realize DUH, quit doing ____.

i also think the code thing about working on one thing at a time is good mojo, so ignore this discussion for now. 

[sqweak]

i also think the code thing about working on one thing at a time is good mojo, so ignore this discussion for now. 

Yup, exactly what i've been thinking.   I've been getting some fantastic advice on a bunch of things to fix and try, but I need to get some of my groundwork lessons to be second nature so that I have the budget to work on new stuff. 

[MetalDuc]

i nearly commented on this to courtney while we were @ CSS but in the spirit of how they do things i decided not to..

Scoot back for large folks on a real track bike, right?

Courtney's pretty light, I suspect it won't make much difference for her?

Funny, this is something I noticed in looking at the pictures as they were posted throughout the day. We actually discussed body position some between sessions. She is pretty little and has short arms so for her to have slightly bent elbows and relaxed arms she has to be way forward.

On her GSXR she kept talking about how nice the arm cut outs fit her and it made the bike more comfortable. I finally asked her one day what arm cut outs she was talking about so she got on the bike and showed me. Then I got on the bike on its side stand and showed her that those "arm" cut outs are actually where most people's knees go! You don't really think about how smaller people fit on the bike sometimes until you make the back to back comparison like that.

In addition to that her rider coach was having her practice squeezing the tank with her knees. I don't remember the reason but I do know she said it helped and she felt more in control when doing it so she consciously kept at it all day. Kind of hard to squeeze the tank with your knees when you are sitting back on the bike and that little

I am sure we will eventually get to L3 and position. Hopefully it is like speeddog said and her body position front to back won't matter much due to her size for the time being. We do know that she is sitting too upright and not leaning her body enough with the bike. She was also having some trouble with this on the steering bike on the skid pad. Particularly when turning left.

Next time you have a chance to see her on a bike maybe you can give some pointers on how best to position herself given her size. I think you will be surprised how she fits on the bike compared to us.

As for me I know I have some positioning to work on as well. My rider coach worked on it with me a little through out the day. First he let me know I was hanging off too far and then was trying to show me how to get my hips pointed into the turn. I credit dirt bikes with helping me learn how to shift my weight front to back. Probably too much so. I realized in L1 that I was using my body to move my weight to the back instead of the throttle. Now I need to get use to sitting back, staying back and using the throttle to transfer the weight.

[gm2]

Yup, exactly what i've been thinking.   I've been getting some fantastic advice on a bunch of things to fix and try, but I need to get some of my groundwork lessons to be second nature so that I have the budget to work on new stuff. 

if you get both quick turn and throttle control quasi-mastered you'll get faster and much smoother.  that's all L1.  esp quick turn: if you are in fact snapping it over quickly the need to get super leaned diminishes.  1 steering input.  it's not just turn-in point, it's turn-in.. velocity.  big time.  if you're all slow about getting it turned the whole corner gets exaggerated and you blow it.  you end up turning multiple times.

L2 is all visual stuff which makes the where to go and how to process it much easier.  except for the last lesson in L2 is really the first lesson in L3, which will leave you feeling exactly the same way you did when you left L1... lol

[gm2]

Misti is small, but Courtney is smaller. 

height-wise, ya think?  i dunno, they both seem short. 

but yeah, misti is a perfect reference.  i've nearly blown many a turn by trailing her and watching her form rather than the track.*

*someone will turn that statement into a joke... i would.  but i'm serious.  she is so effortless on the bike.

[sqweak]

if you get both quick turn and throttle control quasi-mastered you'll get faster and much smoother.  that's all L1.  esp quick turn: if you are in fact snapping it over quickly the need to get super leaned diminishes.  1 steering input.  it's not just turn-in point, it's turn-in.. velocity.  big time.  if you're all slow about getting it turned the whole corner gets exaggerated and you blow it.  you end up turning multiple times.

I don't know that I'm the quickest at snapping it down, but I do think that I'm good at giving one (and only one) input.  AFM Sweeper at BWillow was the perfect example of this for me.  I started out making like 3 separate turns through there and worked on it all day so that it was just 1.

Can you guys do me a favor on the 4th and watch me a bit (at least what you can see from the pits) and see how this stuff looks?

[Speeddog]

The other issue is:

For a given height, women generally have shorter arms and shorter torso, and longer legs, than a man.
So, their position is going to look different just from that.

[gm2]

I don't know that I'm the quickest at snapping it down, but I do think that I'm good at giving one (and only one) input.  AFM Sweeper at BWillow was the perfect example of this for me.  I started out making like 3 separate turns through there and worked on it all day so that it was just 1.

Can you guys do me a favor on the 4th and watch me a bit (at least what you can see from the pits) and see how this stuff looks?

i think snapping it into the corner is a tough thing to learn.  i started out making this dumb little twitch in the opposite direction, as if i were winding up or some shit.  just give it time.  Wide Vision (the term explains the whole lesson..) from L2 will help.

[aprilmaybe]

Totally missed this earlier...

Bummer about the crash and glad you are OK.

[gm2]

When we were there for CSS there was actually a RockStar energy drink on the track just after the corner. I thnk at some point between sessions gm2 actually went out and picked it up.

don't know why i just saw this.

that was a can but not the kind you think: it was an exhaust canister from one of the little kid's GP bikes.  i was about an inch from picking it up before i realized that.  ...then i kicked it off the track.