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POLL: Plastic tank problems

Started by J.P., March 16, 2009, 02:12:55 PM

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stopintime

#60
March 29, 2009, 11:02:27 AM
Quote from: Duck-Stew on March 29, 2009, 10:52:39 AM

.......................

DNA has *got* to do something about this....

I know Statler doesn't look like a lawyer, but he is, isn't he?
This kind of crusade, group action without being paid would be perfect for him - and for you US guys.
I can't imagine he's got better things to do - being a flounder without compensation isn't enough - let him take this load as well!

;D [thumbsup]
252,000 km/seventeen years - loving it

ducatiz

#61
March 29, 2009, 11:10:21 AM
We need two things:

1.  The exact metrics Ducati uses to determine correct tank dimensions.  There should be a good way to measure your tank and figure this out.  I >>assume<< circumference around a known point would be a good start as swelling is going to go in all directions, if the material has the same thickness all around.  It would be EXTRA good to have this done by a dealer who knows the issue and the dimensions.

2.  A registry of owners who have documented the swelling, WHETHER OR NOT they've had their tanks replaced.  If you had a tank replacement, that is proof positive they know of a problem.

is there a way to set up a registry?  you'd need to provide your contact info and probably VIN, date of purchase, etc.

This is the only way I can see getting any OUT of warranty service.  Once they see enough ppl have this problem, the next step is a lawsuit and it could probably be class certified once you have enough ppl. 

How many bikes would this affect?  All the plastic tank bikes since '05, right?  How many is that?
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

Duck-Stew

#62
March 29, 2009, 11:34:00 AM
2005 is a split model year for the plastic tanks. 

Early 620's and S4R's got steel tanks & it seems that all the '05 S2R800's got plastic ones.
Bike-less Portuguese immigrant enjoying life.

ducpainter

#63
March 29, 2009, 11:37:39 AM
Quote from: ducatizzzz on March 29, 2009, 11:10:21 AM
We need two things:

1.  The exact metrics Ducati uses to determine correct tank dimensions.  There should be a good way to measure your tank and figure this out.  I >>assume<< circumference around a known point would be a good start as swelling is going to go in all directions, if the material has the same thickness all around.  It would be EXTRA good to have this done by a dealer who knows the issue and the dimensions.

<snip>
Has it been ascertained they are swelling?

I don't think that's the problem.
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


ducatiz

#64
March 29, 2009, 11:44:55 AM
Quote from: ducpainter on March 29, 2009, 11:37:39 AM
Has it been ascertained they are swelling?

I don't think that's the problem.

people seem to think that -- especially with the fitting problems.

what do yo uthink the problem is?
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

ducpainter

#65
March 29, 2009, 11:52:06 AM
Quote from: ducatizzzz on March 29, 2009, 11:44:55 AM
people seem to think that -- especially with the fitting problems.

what do yo uthink the problem is?
Heat distortion.

Look at it this way.

Heat causes expansion.

If you have a molded piece of plastic that is restrained, by the hinge, latch, and bumpers you heat it with an engine from the bottom It can't grow in all directions uniformly.

Something has to give.

Every plastic tank I've seen develops waviness on the right side by the vertical head first.

I also think that if it was swelling due to fuel incompatibility there would be EPA issues that DNA could never walk away from.
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


ducatiz

#66
March 29, 2009, 11:56:39 AM
Quote from: ducpainter on March 29, 2009, 11:52:06 AM
Heat distortion.

Look at it this way.

Heat causes expansion.

If you have a molded piece of plastic that is restrained, by the hinge, latch, and bumpers you heat it with an engine from the bottom It can't grow in all directions uniformly.

Something has to give.

Every plastic tank I've seen develops waviness on the right side by the vertical head first.

I also think that if it was swelling due to fuel incompatibility there would be EPA issues that DNA could never walk away from.

if it is in fact heat distortion, then i would consider that a design defect. 
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

stopintime

#67
March 29, 2009, 12:02:07 PM
AFAIK this problem hasn't been an issue in Europe - not much ethanol here.
If it was only heat distortion, we would have it here too.
Maybe a combination of the two?

(I might be wrong about this not being an issue here, but I never heard of it)
252,000 km/seventeen years - loving it

ducpainter

#68
March 29, 2009, 12:04:30 PM
Quote from: ducatizzzz on March 29, 2009, 11:56:39 AM
if it is in fact heat distortion, then i would consider that a design defect. 
If it's swelling due to ethanol it is no less of a design defect.

It's a fuel tank. It needs to hold fuel and still fit the vehicle.

"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


ducatiz

#69
March 29, 2009, 12:05:37 PM
Quote from: ducpainter on March 29, 2009, 12:04:30 PM
If it's swelling due to ethanol it is no less of a design defect.

It's a fuel tank. It needs to hold fuel and still fit the vehicle.

i meant it is likely a design defect in either case



Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

ducpainter

#70
March 29, 2009, 12:18:08 PM
Quote from: ducatizzzz on March 29, 2009, 12:05:37 PM
i meant it is likely a design defect in either case




you mean we agree that the plastic tanks suck?   ;D

If I had one of those I'd swap it out for a steel tank or a carbon/kevlar unit in a heartbeat....probably steel...because I'm cheap. ;)
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


DucLeone

#71
March 29, 2009, 12:24:19 PM
if it really expands,that means more fuel fit in there there of greater range [moto]
j/k
DUCATI NON E UNA MOTO, E UN STILE DI VIVERE
KISS FRENCH AND RIDE ITALIAN
S2R 800 Black

ducatiz

#72
March 29, 2009, 01:09:55 PM
Quote from: ducpainter on March 29, 2009, 12:18:08 PM
you mean we agree that the plastic tanks suck?   ;D

If I had one of those I'd swap it out for a steel tank or a carbon/kevlar unit in a heartbeat....probably steel...because I'm cheap. ;)

i think they are the right idea, but only if they don't expand or swell.  that is utter bullshit if they are.  you'd think by now we would have solid tanks.

i like the plastic because it won't dent.  i know at least half a dozen guys who would have dented tanks were it not for the plastic setup.

i don't mind steel as long as it's lined, but it seems to me they could have lined these.
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

ducpainter

#73
March 29, 2009, 01:17:49 PM
Quote from: ducatizzzz on March 29, 2009, 01:09:55 PM
i think they are the right idea, but only if they don't expand or swell.  that is utter bullshit if they are.  you'd think by now we would have solid tanks.

i like the plastic because it won't dent.  i know at least half a dozen guys who would have dented tanks were it not for the plastic setup.

i don't mind steel as long as it's lined, but it seems to me they could have lined these.
I also heard...and not from an authoritative source...that the rotomolded Duc tanks were in fact 2 types of plastic. One that would accept paint on the outside and one that is fuel proof on the inside.

If that's true, it should have eliminated the possibility of swelling. I've never cut one open to find out.

IMO the only reason Ducati went with plastic tanks is that they're cheaper to produce.

The steel tanks had to be extremely labor intensive to make seeing as they're 5 pieces plus all the internal tubes and hinge plates/hinge. Labor means $$$$ in manufacturing.
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."


herm

#74
March 29, 2009, 01:50:30 PM
Quote from: ducpainter on March 29, 2009, 01:17:49 PM
I also heard...and not from an authoritative source...that the rotomolded Duc tanks were in fact 2 types of plastic. One that would accept paint on the outside and one that is fuel proof on the inside.

If that's true, it should have eliminated the possibility of swelling. I've never cut one open to find out.

IMO the only reason Ducati went with plastic tanks is that they're cheaper to produce.

The steel tanks had to be extremely labor intensive to make seeing as they're 5 pieces plus all the internal tubes and hinge plates/hinge. Labor means $$$$ in manufacturing.

well, then i have a deal for you.

i will trade you my plastic tank (which you can cut up, shoot at, or whatever you like) for one of the following
a) a weld/POR/paint of my spair metal tank
or.......
b) a painted CF tank

lemmy know [thumbsup]
If you drive the nicest car in the neighborhood, work in a cash business, and don't pay taxes, you're either a preacher or a drug dealer...
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