How many people actually make it through the learning curve??

[amcloud]

Another friend of mine wrecked a bike yesterday...50mph high side.  He had an oh shit moment around a curve and grabbed and handful and the bike tossed him.  This got me thinking...4 of the last 5 people I know who bought a bike being new to the sport have wrecked / totaled their purchase in 2 weeks or less.  All of them wrecked due to inexperience.  Just thought this was a high failure rate...maybe making it through the learning curve is harder than I thought...glad to have my first few years behind me safely.  Just another reason to show your moto the up most respect....otherwise it will get the best of you.

[Spidey]

What is "make it through"?

Without crashing?  Some
Without totalling the bike?  Many.
Without getting hurt at all?  Some/many.  Dunno eggzactly.
Without giving up motorcycling?  Many.
Without dying?  Vast majority.

Personally and with no data to back this up, I think the riskiest time in terms of hurting yourself is not within your first two months (you're likely to drop it or have a slow speed crash where you'll be ok), but when you start getting comfy, say 6-18 months or two years.  That's when you're gonna make the beast with two backs up at speed and potentially really do some damage.   

Sorry to hear about your friend.  I hope he is ok.

[the_Journeyman]

Had those four folks that totaled/wrecked their bikes taken the MSF or similar basic skills course?  It took me 6,000 miles to total my 1st bike.  Other than that, it was a couple very slow speed drops.  What type of bike were those four riders riding?

JM

[GLantern]

Personally and with no data to back this up, I think the riskiest time in terms of hurting yourself is not within your first two months (you're likely to drop it or have a slow speed crash where you'll be ok), but when you start getting comfy, say 6-18 months or two years.  That's when you're gonna make the beast with two backs up at speed and potentially really do some damage.   

Sorry to hear about your friend.  I hope he is ok.

I agree with what spidey said i have been riding street since i was 17, 24 now and i didn't have my first crash till last year were i lowsided my 1098 my 2nd week of ownership.  And you know why i dropped it?  I was TOO comfortable and i didn't think the turn through before i knew it i leaned it all the way over on cold tires and there i went.

Really hope your friend is alright.  People just need to respect the machine and take it easy.  Everyone i have ridden with have made it through the beginning learning curve fine.  This includes people with and without formal training, hell i never took the MSF course myself!  YMMV

[amcloud]

Only 1 of the 4 took the MSF BRC, but refused to start on a small bike.  He insisted on an R6.  As for the other 3, 696, GSXR 600 and GSXR 750...none of them beginner bikes...but apparently 250s aren't very cool. haha.

[GLantern]

Only 1 of the 4 took the MSF BRC, but refused to start on a small bike.  He insisted on an R6.  As for the other 3, 696, GSXR 600 and GSXR 750...none of them beginner bikes...but apparently 250s aren't very cool. haha.

A lot of people refuse to start on small bikes that tends to be a problem.  The 696 isn't a bad starter bike, mine was an 82 yamaha virago, but the 250 ninja is the best IMO.  Of course if you respect the bike it will respect you no matter how much power it has.  There are a lot of factors why one would start with a bigger bike even though they aren't ready for it.  I have a friend who is 6 foot 7 and well the only bike he fits on comfortably is an R1   Thank god the kid can't afford a bike right now 

[Statler]

lots of folks ride for years without knowing what countersteering is.

And how often do you hear someone say they had to lay the bike down?  (too often)

So some never make it through and are still riding  

[Triple J]

Only 1 of the 4 took the MSF BRC, but refused to start on a small bike.  He insisted on an R6.  As for the other 3, 696, GSXR 600 and GSXR 750...none of them beginner bikes...but apparently 250s aren't very cool. haha.

There's the problem...lack of training, coupled with high powered sports bikes. The 696 is the only one that I would consider reasonable for a beginner bike (provided you have the $$$ to fix it). The others are great bikes, but have a lot of power. I can't imagine riding my 848 as my 1st bike...which is essentially what the others are doing.  

I also agree with Spidey. Complacency is a huge risk as a person gets more comfortable.

[amcloud]

A lot of people refuse to start on small bikes that tends to be a problem.  The 696 isn't a bad starter bike, mine was an 82 yamaha virago, but the 250 ninja is the best IMO.  Of course if you respect the bike it will respect you no matter how much power it has.  There are a lot of factors why one would start with a bigger bike even though they aren't ready for it.  I have a friend who is 6 foot 7 and well the only bike he fits on comfortably is an R1   Thank god the kid can't afford a bike right now 

My first bike was a '92 honda shadow vlx (not the coolest bike, but it served its purpose), and I already had some riding experience on dad's harley and a few dirt bikes here and there.  I'm also a civilian engineer for the navy, so I was forced to take the BRC, ERC, and advanced sportbike class.  I felt a lot of it was elementary at the time, but looking back on it I did learn quite a few valuable techniques...and they were all free so time well spent.

[GLantern]

My first bike was a '92 honda shadow vlx (not the coolest bike, but it served its purpose), and I already had some riding experience on dad's harley and a few dirt bikes here and there.  I'm also a civilian engineer for the navy, so I was forced to take the BRC, ERC, and advanced sportbike class.  I felt a lot of it was elementary at the time, but looking back on it I did learn quite a few valuable techniques...and they were all free so time well spent.

That's exactly why your friend ended up in a ditch and you didn't 

[mitt]

And how often do you hear someone say they had to lay the bike down?  (too often)

+1 - I always chuckle when I hear someone laid it down and avoided a crash.  That implies an out of control motorcycle sliding steel on concrete (coefficient of friction of .1 - .2) managed to stop or go clear of another obstacle, but an in control motorcycle with disc brakes and 2 patches of rubber to concrete (coef .8 - .9) could not have stopped or avoided it?

I am convinced that motorcycles are just not for everyone, and a lot of people that are on them, just don't have the basic hand eye brain coordination to be safe.

mitt

[ghosthound]

Personally and with no data to back this up, I think the riskiest time in terms of hurting yourself is not within your first two months (you're likely to drop it or have a slow speed crash where you'll be ok), but when you start getting comfy, say 6-18 months or two years.  That's when you're gonna make the beast with two backs up at speed and potentially really do some damage.   

My friend dropped his gixxer 600 within 3 months.. he took the MSF course but didnt pass the driving part  

I strongly advised against getting a 600 super sport for his first bike but it was his money and he wanted to look cool.  

Now as for what you said, I agree 100%.  Most newb accidents are low speed drops that dont do a ton of damage nor injure the rider too much.  

I havent dropped my bike yet and i know the more comfortable i get, the worse my first drop is most likely going to be.  I can already tell im riding more agressively since im more confident in my riding ability which means when i do go down for whatever reason... its most like going to be a nasty one.  

[dlearl476]

Another friend of mine wrecked a bike yesterday...50mph high side.  He had an oh shit moment around a curve and grabbed and handful and the bike tossed him. 

There is no substitute for education.

A big problem is that a lot of "accident avoidance" skills on a motorcycle are counter-intuitive.  While applying brakes, mid-corner, when you've overcooked it MAY on occasion work in a car, it almost never does on a bike, as your friend discovered.  The only way to overcome that is a little bit of knowledge and a hell of a lot of practice.
While everyone may not be able to afford the luxury of Freddie Spencer or Keith Code schools like I was, anyone can afford a MSF basic and advanced rider course, a copy of Nick Ienatche's "Sport Riding Techniques"

or David Hough's "Proficient Motorcling" and a few tanks of gas in a parking lot.

[Statler]

it comes up whenever anyone asks about good beginner bikes...

I don't think it's just the the power that gets people in trouble, it's the immediacy of the controls.   a ninja 250 doing 90 is still different than a ninja 600 doing 90.

The more slop or 'mush' that is taken out of the controls makes a bike more pleasurable for an experienced rider.    But the hamfisted grab at the brakes means a crash.  The hamfisted throttle control means a crash.  The difficult to modulate clutch means a stall and maybe a slow crash....or a jerky takeoff and an uncontrolled ride over a curb.

Beginner bikes are more forgiving.   shifts can be a little lazier...braking can be less smooth...control transitions can be a little less coordinated.

After a while one likes a bike that goes to 9 the instant you turn the throttle to 9.  In the beginning it's nice to be able to have the bike breeze through 2 to 8 to get to nine when you instantly put the throttle there.

After a while you like brakes that will stoppie the bike with a finger.   In the beginning it's nice to be able to use a little too much hand but not have the bike instantly lock the front.

After a while you like the smallest movement at the bars to make the bike steer quickly off in the direction you want.  In the beginning you like to have a stable platform that takes a little more control input to dive towards incoming traffic.

After a while you like...etc.etc.etc.

modern 600s are pretty sharp.  In the beginning I think soft is good.

[Spidey]

I don't think it's just the the power that gets people in trouble, it's the immediacy of the controls.  

That's a great explanation, Statler.  I often struggle with a good and succinct response to the "if you respect the throttle, you'll be ok" advice that is often given to new riders looking at machinery way beyond their experience level.