How many people actually make it through the learning curve??

[amcloud]

I picked up the nickname "saddlebags" for a while because I chose an old honda shadow to learn on.  All the newbie kids on parent sponsored rides loved to make fun of me...but I had more fun learning and pushing the limits of that little bike than they did riding in ditches, picking themselves and bikes up off the road, explaining what happened to moms 10k, or riding the curves at granny speeds.

[Scooter Montgomery]

And how often do you hear someone say they had to lay the bike down?  (too often)

I laid mine down at a gas station once. I was getting off and was thinking about where my wallet was, and forgot to put the kick stand down. By the time I realized what I did it was to late to catch it. I was able to get under it enough not the actually damage anything, fell really slow. I felt like a total dope though.  

[Popeye the Sailor]

Idk about the dirt thing-I think the same rules sort of apply.


I mean, Jammen, who's been riding for about 4-5 years recently got into it. Bought a WR400 and something, and a few months into it, managed to go over the bars, and have the bike flip over and break his pelvis. He's only recently started riding again. Would a less powerful bike have helped? Maybe. He rides a Brutale most of the time-not exactly slow bikes.

A lighter bike probably would have helped-if only from the extent of the injury.


Those helicopter rides are 30K these days, fyi. Dirtbiking lends itself to some pretty out of the way places-if one does get hurt or damages the bike, getting it and yourself out may be an issue as well.


I'm not saying it's not better, but it probably also has some points against it.

[ghosthound]

it comes up whenever anyone asks about good beginner bikes...

I don't think it's just the the power that gets people in trouble, it's the immediacy of the controls.   a ninja 250 doing 90 is still different than a ninja 600 doing 90.

The more slop or 'mush' that is taken out of the controls makes a bike more pleasurable for an experienced rider.    But the hamfisted grab at the brakes means a crash.  The hamfisted throttle control means a crash.  The difficult to modulate clutch means a stall and maybe a slow crash....or a jerky takeoff and an uncontrolled ride over a curb.

Beginner bikes are more forgiving.   shifts can be a little lazier...braking can be less smooth...control transitions can be a little less coordinated.

After a while one likes a bike that goes to 9 the instant you turn the throttle to 9.  In the beginning it's nice to be able to have the bike breeze through 2 to 8 to get to nine when you instantly put the throttle there.



After a while you like brakes that will stoppie the bike with a finger.   In the beginning it's nice to be able to use a little too much hand but not have the bike instantly lock the front.

After a while you like the smallest movement at the bars to make the bike steer quickly off in the direction you want.  In the beginning you like to have a stable platform that takes a little more control input to dive towards incoming traffic.

After a while you like...etc.etc.etc.

modern 600s are pretty sharp.  In the beginning I think soft is good.

very well put...

I rode my friends 250 ninja from the person she bought it from back to her house and i can definitely vouch for the "softer" controls.  Even compared to my lowly s2r800, the controls on the ninja were for more forgiving. 

Also, because the bike is so much lighter and smaller, its a lot easier to turn. 

Another thing i have noticed with most squid bikes, i mean sport bikes is that the clutches are super stiff.  I dont know if it has to do with the fact that they are almost all cable actuated but it seems more difficult to feather in gently.  I love how smooth the clutch pull is on the Duc.

[velocipede]

Just to add my 2pence...I was really glad I spent $2k on a used GS500 instead of 10K on a new Monster when I sliid it across an intersection (and very conveniently into the corner of a hospital...I may be clumsy, but my aim is good!)  No cause for the accident except for noob-itude...I made a panic stop by grabbing the front brake and immediately went down.  Definitely one of those "I had no choice but to drop the bike" that was really just inexperience.  Once I got a bit more experience and wanted more power I bought a 620 (Hey, I'm in no rush  ) and sold the 500 for...$2000.  That's another argument for starting small...Smaller bikes hold their value much better than bigger bikes, so you'll lose a lot less $$ if you try to unload a 250 or 500 japanes than a 1098.

[amcloud]

I guess I forgot to mention this, but on the bright side, the latest victim, the R6 (50mph highside), was wearing helmet, gloves, riding boots, riding jacket, & jeans and walked into work this morning with a few sore muscles and a little bit of road rash on the calf...not bad.  He was hurt less than the other 3 who crashed at 25mph or less who were wearing minimal gear.

[bigiain]

If you are still not convinced, we could go borrow someones Ninja 250 and take turns trying to lock up the front wheel. 

I suspect you haven't seen Spidey having fun on weekends? He tries valiantly to lock the front of his 250 Ninja at turn 4, 6, 7, an 11 every single lap (the damned thing doesn't go fast enough to need much braking at any of the other turns at Infineon...)

big

[Fox]

I have to say I am continually impressed by the general attitude of this forum about riding. You folks continually stress proper riding gear, start slowly working your way up and ride within your means. Most folks in the motorcycle community don't have such a level of respect for the beginning rider and the sport of motorcycling as a whole. Props to you.

[bigiain]

I have to say I am continually impressed by the general attitude of this forum about riding. You folks continually stress proper riding gear, start slowly working your way up and ride within your means. Most folks in the motorcycle community don't have such a level of respect for the beginning rider and the sport of motorcycling as a whole. Props to you.

Yeah, and they call themselves "hooligans"! *Frauds* the lot of them! 

big

[crankmonster]

Another friend of mine wrecked a bike yesterday...50mph high side.  He had an oh shit moment around a curve and grabbed and handful and the bike tossed him.  This got me thinking...4 of the last 5 people I know who bought a bike being new to the sport have wrecked / totaled their purchase in 2 weeks or less.  All of them wrecked due to inexperience.  Just thought this was a high failure rate...maybe making it through the learning curve is harder than I thought...glad to have my first few years behind me safely.  Just another reason to show your moto the up most respect....otherwise it will get the best of you.

This is just the results of stupidity. Why would someone who hasn't done something think they can do it? It's like doing the same thing over and over and expecting to get something other than what you got before doing the same thing.

It's nice to know there is a never ending supply of track bikes.

[gh0stie]

read these articles when I was shopping for first bike, I have them bookmarked for any time I hear a newbie ask about 1st bikes

http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151947

http://forums.sportrider.com/70/591801/new-riders/new-riders-please-read-this-updated/index.html

[Mike_D]

While i think there is validity to the bike size versus experience level equation, I think motorcycle safely is more a factor of attitude and respect for all the really bad shit that can happen to you if you screw up.

  I have many years of dirt and motocross experience (and a few scars to prove it).  My attitude then was one of pushing both the bike and myself to the limit, and sometimes beyond.  I can't tell you the number of times I thought to myself while flying through the air after landing badly on a double or getting sideways in the whoops, "oooooh, this is gonna hurt."  And sometimes it did hurt, but the gear protected you and the ground was relatively soft, so you dusted yourself off and got back on for some more.  Acting a little crazy--and crashing as a result of it--was just part of the fun and exhileration of the sport.  And it often made you a better rider.

Now, every time I get on my Monster, I'm all business.  No crazyness allowed because pavement, trees, and large steel vehicles will kill you.  My MX experience has saved my ass during a couple of moments where I know I would have crashed without it.  I never show off for the girls or pull a power wheelie from a stop light  because the one time you let Mr. Crazy sneak in and get the best of you, some cager is going to cut in front of you or you are going to hit a nice patch of gravel.  It's an unalterable law of the universe.

I know I'm stating the obvious, but I often wonder what these squids on gixxers and CBRs are thinking with their minimal gear weaving in and out of traffic or pulling wheelies off the line and looking at me like I'm the squid.  Must be nice to be bulletproof.   

[Smokescreen]

Ivan- If you are ready to get a bike, get one.  But don't get an SS or a 1000cc Monster.

My first bike was an SV650 I bought new and put 30K miles on before guard railing it (in full gear thank God) and destroying the bike.  Had I been on a supersport, I'd have crashed a dozen times before.  I tended to get nervy and use the brakes mid corner to scrub speed.  Got pretty good at trail braking because, and only because the SV650's brakes weren't up to the task of putting me on my asphalt...

The  point is, there are cool(ish) beginner bikes, but the options are few.  The SV650, the Ninja 650, the 6XX series Monsters...  You may see a trend here, all twins! 

There's a big upside to riding these machines; well a few actually.
1. Price and resale (they are cheaper and depreciate less)
2. They are like a buffer, as noted earlier, you can be hamfisted and not pay too dearly
(I skipped the front tyre of my SV a few times in corner, at what I thought was a steep lean angle years before I touched my knee down, without a mishap)
3. WHEN....  You've lived through the initiation, and become a proficient rider, smokin riders on faster bikes (let's say, "at the track", for PC's sake) feels really great from the cockpit of the slow bike!!!  Inversely, getting your arse handed to you by a rider on a cheaper, "slower" bike doesn't engender feelings of manlyness.....  One day after getting a ticket (at the track of course) that was totally bogus (at the track, needless to say) I decided to go ahead and do a little going.  I was on my home roa-err track and had a fair grasp of the....  whatever...  Anyways, on my SV, I caught up to this tool on a 1098S.  He saw me, and took off like a scalded cat down every straight, but got on the brakes too heavy for every turn.  So I out braked him, passed on the inside whilst he was "setting up" and candy coated the turn for him whilst barely ever touching the brakes.  Believe me, he knew those twin tail-beams were off my $3K SV650.....  I know he knew, because the next week when I went to his shop for parts, he wasn't near as friendly as he used to be...     He knew he'd just been toasted by a bike worth roughly 1/8th his bike had just handed him his arse.  The bummer was, he knew it was me riding it, but that just goes to show you should control your temper when you are... umm...  at the track. 

Anyhow, long story short, get a bike, take classes, assume you know nothing.  If you want a Monster and have the fundage, get one!  Honestly anything less than (and maybe including) the 800 Monster is pretty easy going, and pretty easy to upgrade as your skills increase.  Just take the classes, and wear proper gear.

[JetTest]

Mike_D, good post,good advice. IMHO, the best place to learn to ride is the dirt. Learn to control a slide and how to get off without nearly as much pain as you get on pavement. I grew up riding dirtbikes, and if we did not crash at least 20 times a day we weren't riding hard enough, and since I started riding on the street 30 years ago I've never been down on the pavement. Lucky I guess.

[erkishhorde]

Wow, there's a lotta commentary in here so far and it's only the first day. I got about half way through and stopped reading and decided to just randomly throw out my experiences. I feel that the largest component to accidents for a new rider is the rider and not the bike. Yes, it's easier to go fast on a bigger bike. Yes, bigger bikes tend to be less forgiving of mistakes. But a competent new rider should know to ride within their limits. They should be able to understand when they're in over their heads and do something about it before it's too late. I took the MSF class and then practiced riding around the cul de sac that I lived on before hitting public streets.

My first bike was '93 Secca II (XJ600). It's a simple bike and rather heavy. Not a lot of scoot off the line but it got me around. It was a bit tall for me and the first thing I did when I got it was tip over at a stop on a perpendicular incline. After that, I had a few oh shit moments when I locked up the rear, each time due to panic braking. The first time I got lucky and skidded through an empty intersection. The second time I got lucky and  managed to stop in time, the third time I hit a car that was turning left in front of me. 

After that bike I got the monster. My first accident was running off the road while coming to a stop. Totally stupid accident due to not being observant. After that, I've have numerous close calls and many small scrapes. I've nearly gotten creamed more than I can remember while lane splitting due to my own stupidity. I've also had at least one insurance claim a year for the last 3 years due to cages hitting me.

I didn't come anywhere close to hitting windies until I felt comfortable on the bike so any of this "oh shit moment going around a curve at 50" crap in the first month of riding really pisses me off. Maybe they thought they were comfortable but I don't really see how you can be after only having the bike for a few weeks and not having had any training. Maybe I'm just overly cautious but you should respect your bike and understand that your next oh shit moment could be last and err on the side of caution and practice more before you go anywhere.

When my friend started riding he started on a CBR 600. I told him it was probably a bit too big for a starter bike and it scared the shit outa him. He rode home at 40-50mph... on the freeway... when he bought it. On surface streets he would ride at 10-20mph in a 40 zone. I felt that was incredibly dangerous but what is more dangerous: him riding too slow for traffic (I was buffering behind him and waving people around us) or him riding out of his limits? He made it through pretty well but it was a very slow progression. He's still not a super great rider but now he has the confidence and skill to ride every day and hit the twisties. He might still panic and drop it going too slow in a hair pin  but for the most part he does fine. I feel he handled the "large" bike pretty well for a nooby because he understood how dangerous it could be and rode within his limits.

A small group of my friends started riding after I left college and out of the 4 of them, all have take the MSF class and 2 have low sided. I know one was due to target fixation and the other I'm not sure. Both were riding a ninja 250 when they crashed. It's not always the bike. Most of the time it's the rider.