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Ducati Vyper - Ducati is considering a new 1400cc power cruiser

Started by bluemoco, March 24, 2009, 07:56:34 AM

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JEFF_H

#90
July 30, 2009, 01:23:33 PM
I sense the influence of Ducati newest dealer- Orange County Choppers.  :P

Speedbag

#91
July 30, 2009, 02:30:13 PM
Quote from: MrIncredible on July 01, 2009, 08:37:54 AM
Yup-and I keep maintaining short valve adjustment intervals have no place on a touring bike.

And that, kids, is THE reason I just keep shying away from buying another Duc in general, especially since I want 4-valve twin powah. Overly complicated and frequent service is BS, takes away from valuable riding time.

As soon as they realize that valve spring metallurgy has made incredible progress and put in timing chains I'm back.
I tend to regard most of humanity as little more than walking talking dilated sphincters. - Rat

ducatiz

#92
July 30, 2009, 06:53:40 PM
I seriously doubt that "Desmo Ducati" will being using spring valves in their bikes any time soon.  Valve chains could be done at home.
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

Speedbag

#93
July 30, 2009, 07:01:41 PM
I did my Duc's timing belts at home too, but thought it was nonsense. Belts are slightly more efficient than chains, but come on....
I tend to regard most of humanity as little more than walking talking dilated sphincters. - Rat

ducatiz

#94
July 30, 2009, 07:12:28 PM
Quote from: Speedbag on July 30, 2009, 07:01:41 PM
I did my Duc's timing belts at home too, but thought it was nonsense. Belts are slightly more efficient than chains, but come on....

I meant you could convert the cam drive to chains pretty easily.. just very messy...
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

mitt

#95
July 30, 2009, 07:26:11 PM
Quote from: shyster on July 30, 2009, 07:12:28 PM
I meant you could convert the cam drive to chains pretty easily.. just very messy...

If you are going to that much trouble, you might as well do gears and be done with it  ;D

mitt

Speeddog

#96
July 30, 2009, 10:41:10 PM
Quote from: shyster on July 30, 2009, 07:12:28 PM
I meant you could convert the cam drive to chains pretty easily.. just very messy...

Really?

Do tell.

[popcorn]
- - - - - Valley Desmo Service - - - - -
Reseda, CA
(951) 640-8908

~~~ "We've rearranged the deck chairs, refilled the champagne glasses, and the band sounds great. This is fine." - Alberto Puig ~~~

ducatiz

#97
July 31, 2009, 06:45:29 AM
Quote from: Speeddog on July 30, 2009, 10:41:10 PM
Really?

Do tell.

[popcorn]

use a drive chain from a GTL, gears have to be fabricated.. sprocket specialists will do it.  use a scottoiler to keep it lubed. 
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

Grampa

#98
July 31, 2009, 07:20:23 AM
Quote from: JEFF_H on July 30, 2009, 01:23:33 PM
I sense the influence of Ducati newest dealer- Orange County Choppers.  :P

* the farce is strong in this one
Gaspar, Melchior and Balthasar kicked me out of the band..... they said I didnt fit the image they were trying to project. 

So I went solo.  -Me

Some people call 911..... some people are 911
-Marcus Luttrell

Speedbag

#99
July 31, 2009, 09:42:22 AM
Quote from: shyster on July 31, 2009, 06:45:29 AM
use a drive chain from a GTL, gears have to be fabricated.. sprocket specialists will do it.  use a scottoiler to keep it lubed. 

Sounds messy.  ;) Would probably result in more oil on my garage floor than my M900 leaked in its original configuration.
I tend to regard most of humanity as little more than walking talking dilated sphincters. - Rat

ducatiz

#100
July 31, 2009, 01:51:13 PM
Quote from: Speedbag on July 31, 2009, 09:42:22 AM
Sounds messy.  ;) Would probably result in more oil on my garage floor than my M900 leaked in its original configuration.

Might be a little, the problem with using chains to drive the cams on a Ducati engine is that the cam drive pulleys are external.  Chains have to be lubed somehow, esp a high-rpm chain like the cam.

The GTL has chain drive cam but it's internal to the engine and lubed by the engine oil. 

It could be done, but I'd want a funky-exotic chain with impregnated lube and probably some high-tech coating on the chain link pieces -- making it cost a mint.

Gears would be harder as you'd have to have a line of gears going between the drive and the cam shaft AND they would have to link up perfectly for the cam to spin correctly.  Ducati's D16 engine uses gears but it was CAD designed, I imagine it would be a pregnant dog to retrofit that to a Desmodue engine.
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

junior varsity

#101
July 31, 2009, 02:25:57 PM
Quote from: shyster on July 31, 2009, 01:51:13 PM
Gears would be harder as you'd have to have a line of gears going between the drive and the cam shaft AND they would have to link up perfectly for the cam to spin correctly.  Ducati's D16 engine uses gears but it was CAD designed, I imagine it would be a pregnant dog to retrofit that to a Desmodue engine.


What about Bevel Gears? [cheeky]

junior varsity

#102
July 31, 2009, 02:27:41 PM
Y'know.....

ducatiz

#103
July 31, 2009, 05:23:17 PM
Quote from: ato memphis on July 31, 2009, 02:25:57 PM

What about Bevel Gears? [cheeky]

they work fine, except there is not any easy way to plug them into a desmodue.  the question was about converting a current-model 2V engine to run chain cam drive instead of belts.
Check out my oil filter forensics thread!                     Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the airâ€"these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.

Speeddog

#104
July 31, 2009, 09:32:51 PM
Gears are horrendously expensive, that's why there aren't a lot of bikes with 'em.

Chains are fine.
They're heavier than belts.
For a Duc conversion, it would be possible to make a separate oil-tight case assembly.
It'd be a huge piece for the back of the case, and would have to be made as one piece to maintain oil tightness.
The outer cover would be a problem, as it'd be impossible to remove as a one piece, and difficult to seal if it was a multi piece.

Have to find a set of tensioners and chain guide plates that'd work.
Maybe get lucky finding ones from another motor, that would cool.
The typical chain guide for cam chains is a hard rubber surface molded around a steel core.
IMO, that wouldn't be a problem for a manufacturer, but custom ones, yeah, a problem.

Biggest functional benefit is it can be a bit narrower.
That's an issue for an I-4 engine, on a L-twin, not much benefit.

Nice thing about belts, is you get the ability to have fins behind them, so the cylinder gets some cooling.
I'm not aware of an air-cooled engine that runs a seperate case for a chain drive.
So in the usual application, there's hot oil running down the head and cylinder wall.
- - - - - Valley Desmo Service - - - - -
Reseda, CA
(951) 640-8908

~~~ "We've rearranged the deck chairs, refilled the champagne glasses, and the band sounds great. This is fine." - Alberto Puig ~~~
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