Just a little b!tch (and I can sense the piling on already. . . )

[junior varsity]

excuse me. lets revisit Roscoe's post. where in the make the beast with two backs are you finding chains and sprockets for $600 for a 520 conversion? Top o' the line chain is under $200, sprockets are another 125 at the most. The most I can imagine spending for all of that, if you tried REALLY hard to spend more, would be $350.

Something is out of whack there.

Slave Cyl replace is cheap, and a DIY thing. All you have to do is bleed the line when you are done, and it requires one hex wrench to swap out cylinders.

What's wrong with your master? Broken? There isn't a significant gain in switching from the S2R's, trust me - I'm rocking the Billet GP Radial 16x18 master cylinder. Its hard to find one better, unless you like the roller/rocker set up of the beringer's. But still, its not so substantial of an improvement to warrant spending money on it "just because".

And A BMW is a best of a completely different color. Not the same kind of light sporty feel. Its a different animal. Maybe its the animal you prefer, but if you are thinking about more performance oriented parts like lightweight sprockets, and upgraded clutch hydraulics, a BMW is an exercise in the other way: more robust parts that won't fail but also don't have those features, like lightweight race derived parts. Great bikes, but are made with a different goal in mind.

[silentbob]

a BMW is an exercise in the other way: more robust parts that won't fail but also don't have those features

Not these days.  Just ask Shadowchaser.  He works in the service department at a BMW/Ducati dealer.  The Ducatis are the reliable ones these days.

[herm]

Grass is always greener on the other side...

and then you find out how much your neighbor spends to keep it greener...

[Greg]

'kay fellas, I thought it was time to vent a bit about my S2R 1000.  Had this beast since new, and I have been going through the "usual" upgrades.  $2000 Termi pipes, headers, ECU.  Looking to do a 520 chain conversion while changing the ratio, $600.  Clutch slave, possibly clutch master, and looking at $500 there with a new 'line.

Sure, I could go on from there, but after seeing the component & wheel improvements done to the new 1100, I have to say I'm a little envious.  Not in the aesthetics, but in the way the newer bike is outfitted.  I can see the costs of upgrades this year alone getting over $1500, and that's just getting the S2R to be something comfortable for my prefernces.

Yes, I understand any bike will be accessorized as its owner sees fit.  That's just what cycles are all about.  But I'm starting to question "how much" money is required to get the bike to where it's usable, I guess I have issue with that.

Case in point.  I test rode a BMW R1200R.  Completely different end of the same standard-bike spectrum.  Know what?  Everything fit.  Components, brakes, clutch pull and effort were right there from the first three feet I was moving.  Same when I tested the Speed Triple and the KTM 990, with exception of the exhaust.  And, yes, these are also at different price points, different "segments" of a standard bike.  But more considered as a total bike, a whole riding package.

I also understand that part of having a Monster is accessorizing it, and "making it your own".  But to be competitive, I'm really surprised that Ducati hasn't offered a better spec on their standard air cooled bikes (Sport Classic included).  The 696 and 1100 go a long way toward that end, but they also ask a higher MSRP.  Before the inevitable Termignoni tax. . .

So, am I foolish in lusting after a different bike?  Looking for something that requires less catalog surfing, and a little more seat time?  Or is it a good time to be attending open houses to see about washing my hands of these shortcomings?

Lots of stuff to address here, first it is not uncommon to have regrets over spending a lot of money on upgrades. However, if you don't want to spend money on upgrades then either buy an upgraded model, or buy a bike off somebody that has already done the mods. I purchased my 06 S2R all tricked out with $4,000 of goodies already on it for the bargain price of $8,000. To have duplicated the bike from new would have cost me atleast $15,000.

Your proposed chain mod makes no sense, buy a 14T sprocket for $35 and be done with it, why are you switching to a 520 anyway?

The clutch can be modified for far less than $500 and as others have said, the master cylinder replacement is cosmetic.

Also bear in mind that Ducati and other motorcycle manufactures put quiet/heavy/low performance exhausts on their bikes due to cost restraints and legal requirements, not just because they want to saddle you with a Termi Tax.


BMW's are totally different, if it fits better then buy it, but ask yourself if you will be happy with it stock. If not then look for used bikes that ve already been modded

[Raux]

Not these days.  Just ask Shadowchaser.  He works in the service department at a BMW/Ducati dealer.  The Ducatis are the reliable ones these days.

hell i hadn't seen shadowchaser in here since last year.

[hillbillypolack]

Thanks for the posts, fellas.  Don't get me wrong, I like the Monster S2R, and know that everyone here mods their bikes in some way.  My 1996 M900 is a testament to modding (and chopping 35 lbs out of the bike in the meantime, but that's another story).

To give a bit of background on the S2R history, I had the M900, and was looking for the last version of what is now called the "classic" Monster look.  The local dealer only had a Sport Classic to test ride, with the Termi setup, and it felt great.  hey, nothing against the dealer, I acknowledge I was headstrong, and thought I knew what I was looking for.  The SC was/is a great bike, gearing and performance felt great, so I took it on faith that the Monster S2R would be just about the same.  I didn't consider the S4 series, since I just didn't need that power, and I just don't groove on the barn door in the breeze look. 

And we know that S2Rs just aren't offered (or weren't offered) with the S4R components.  So, I figured I'd get into the Monster and see what needed changing.  In retrospect, it was a mistake on my part that I didn't test ride a box-stock S2R.  For two significant reasons:

1) the bike is incredibly choked up.  In doing research, it became evident that (ironically) the path to performance was easier, possibly more foolproof, through the Ducati Performance ECU.  Hence, the Termi slip-on and ECU kit. 

2) the bike is also incredibly over-geared.  the 14T front is on, to remedy that.

I'll also add that the levers are way way way too far out for my fingers.  I don't know if I have stubby fingers, but I fit a size large glove (?)  Anyway, the reach in the "adjustable" levers is pretty far out to make a quick grab.  The clutch pressure deal is another question I have, especially for Ducati.  A dry hydraulic clutch is what a Monster is all about, but hey, set us up with a bigger bore size already.  Most of us do a little street riding. . . .

So, those three facets of the S2R are what I might have experienced if I tested one in the flesh instead of buying it blind.  Or already accessorized.  I take full responsibility for that.

What I wonder is that if this is Ducati's "legacy" with the air cooled Monster, why doesn't it have the same necessary upgrades to make it livable, especially when compared to the bikes I mentioned earlier?  Yes, I know about meeting EPA and db requirements, the entire Ducati line has that choked feeling until you sort out the exhaust.  What about the levers and pressure, though?  tell me that we haven't been asking for a better resolution there for the least ten years.  Is it too much to ask for a bigger bore slave, so we can endure a traffic signal with a stock bike?  Looks like they got the message on the 696s. . . (wonderful spec, BTW, honest!).

So, there's where I compare the S2R to a 2008 Speed Triple and BMW R1200R.  Yes, they are different points on the spectrum, and will give different and unique experiences.  I'm answering my own question, I suppose, in that I also know that after riding them for some time, I'd probably alter some facet of those bikes as well.

Two last points.  On just about any bike, I'd be modding the clutch.  A fractured left wrist years ago has me doing the slave and master cylinders to better control the clutch (I prefer this instead of a slipper), and the lever pull is great.  That mod alone just adds up, and will on any bike.

Second is that someone called me on a 520 conversion.  Yes, it matters.  a 520 has way way less resistance that the stock 525.  I did this on the M900, and it's surprising how much easier the bike works with less final drive drag.  But on the S2R, there aren't many "cheap" options for a 44T rear.  Why a 44 rear?  I prefer to keep the countershaft at 15, keeping the stresses as designed in that area.  A 520 chain, coming in at $135-$150, then a $30 front sprocket, then a rear 44T (which you have to get that sprocket carrier, or at least a Stealth at $150-$170).  So, that's between $315-$350.  Again, not a necessity, but a preference (I b!tch a lot, don't I?)

[silentbob]

Second is that someone called me on a 520 conversion.  Yes, it matters.  a 520 has way way less resistance that the stock 525.  I did this on the M900, and it's surprising how much easier the bike works with less final drive drag.  But on the S2R, there aren't many "cheap" options for a 44T rear.  Why a 44 rear?  I prefer to keep the countershaft at 15, keeping the stresses as designed in that area.  A 520 chain, coming in at $135-$150, then a $30 front sprocket, then a rear 44T (which you have to get that sprocket carrier, or at least a Stealth at $150-$170).  So, that's between $315-$350.  Again, not a necessity, but a preference (I b!tch a lot, don't I?)

When people do a 520 conversion they typically lower the gearing and that is what you feel.  I bet in a blind taste test with two identical S2R 1000s, with the same gear ratio, but a 520 chain on one and a 525 on the other, you would not be able to tell the difference.  I have tried similar bikes with 520 vs 525 and with the same gearing there just isn't a difference.  As far as the 14 tooth sprocket goes, Ducati even offers one in the DP catalog.  There are many of us who track our bikes with 14 tooth sprockets and we have never had any failures.

I also don't like my clutch lever to be far away from the bar.  I wear a large glove but have the same stubby finger problem I guess.  I run CRG levers and keep them as close to the bar as they go, for this reason I wouldn't go with a larger clutch slave because the lever will need more travel.  I don't have a problem with the pull on the 1098, but my S4R seemed heavier.  You can always remove a couple of springs from the clutch and have the best of both worlds.  Same lever travel and reduced effort. 

[junior varsity]

I've seen as many as three springs removed. You could also, or instead, install spacers (washers) under the spring caps to lighten the pull.

On my M900, I've removed two springs and put washers under the caps, and it works flawlessly and has a silly-light clutch (compared to stock).

[Loyalizer]

On a personal level, I've always felt that aside from a suspension adjustment, I should not have to sink a large amount of money into a bike to turn it into what it *should* be. I just take issue with taking something brand new, then replacing perfectly good parts to make it into what it should be.

+1

go buy an Audi

-1

I'd take an Audi A4 over the BMW 325 or Mercedes C-Class any day and twice on Sunday.  Anyone that disparages the Audi's of today does not  own one  obviously and has not been aware of them for over 8 years... The engineering is there my friend, you just don't know...

[NAKID]

I just bought (awaiting shipment) of a 520 conversion for my S2R1000. I went with what I have now 15/43 (switched to the 43 from an S4R a while ago) and that gearing works great for me. The fact that I can lose several pounds of rotating mass is why I'm doing it. I do everything I can to lighten the bike and this accomplishes that while increasing the efficiency to boot.

But, by your own admission, you spent $350 on the 520 swap, not $600...

[jdubbs32584]

-1

I'd take an Audi A4 over the BMW 325 or Mercedes C-Class any day and twice on Sunday.  Anyone that disparages the Audi's of today does not  own one  obviously and has not been aware of them for over 8 years... The engineering is there my friend, you just don't know...

Funny, I've had nothing but trouble with my Audi and its an 05.

[junior varsity]

funnier still, i have a behemoth chevy tahoe and i have zero problems with my monster truck, and the government seems to like them so much, they just gave the maker a ton of money, fo' fweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

[silentbob]

I do everything I can to lighten the bike

Except cutting out the beer and donuts.   

[NAKID]

Whoa Whoa Whoa, I'm down to about 190 now. Stress takes it's toll. Sometimes you gain, sometimes you lose...

[junior varsity]

190?  paperweight.