Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates

[NorDog]

I don't want any money.  I just want a tank that works like it should.

[sbrguy]

The question isn't whether Ducati should provide a solution.

The question is how much money should a disinterested 3rd party get for doing that.  And also how much money should you be paid by Ducati for selling a bad tank?

Their suit wants restitution paid over getting a good tank.  At $100 per tank, that will be over $5mil.  And for what? Then add that to the bill rate of their 3 attorneys working this.

I've been on it over a year, I have less experience and they've used all of my info that I've posted.  And they still need 3 guys on it?   

a disinterested 3rd party may make money off of this, but it would have never even come to this if ducati would fix the problem asap, apparently to them the owners of many monsters doesn't matter to them.

so sometimes you have to bring in a 3rd party to makes someome do something that they should have done.

look nobody likes when someone else gets money for something that we think they don't deserve, but that person isn't needed if people just do their damn jobs, and in this case ducati has been doing a half assed job at best.

[ducpainter]

a disinterested 3rd party may make money off of this, but it would have never even come to this if ducati would fix the problem asap, apparently to them the owners of many monsters doesn't matter to them.

so sometimes you have to bring in a 3rd party to makes someome do something that they should have done.

look nobody likes when someone else gets money for something that we think they don't deserve, but that person isn't needed if people just do their damn jobs, and in this case ducati has been doing a half assed job at best.

looks like we disagree on that.

a third party is needed when a manufacturer turns their back and walks away.

Ducati had not done that. I'd suggest that in the world of manufacturing there is rarely a quick solution to an issue like this particularly when their are governmental regulations and certifications involved.

Ducati was spending big money trying to keep people happy while a long term solution was worked out.

[ducatiz]

a disinterested 3rd party may make money off of this, but it would have never even come to this if ducati would fix the problem asap, apparently to them the owners of many monsters doesn't matter to them.

the assumption you've made (and a lot of people have made) is that a solution to this problem was just sitting around or already done.  it isn't.

developing a wholly new tank requires ducati to go back and re-homologate the tank for every model it will be used on.  that means before they have the manufacturing and distribution cost, they have to develop models, have them tested, refined, retested and then they get to the manufacturing.

a lot of people keep harping about getting a metal tank, but i can pretty much safely say that will not happen.  going to a metal tank would change the bike immensely.  people think that because they can buy one from DP or whomever that it means it would be easy for Ducati to do the same thing.  They can't.  As a manufacturer, they are bonded to putting homologated vehicles on the road.  Those tanks you get are NOT homologated, which is why they often say "for off road use only."  Same with most of the "upgrades" you buy from DP etc.  Ducati legally CANNOT put them on a bike as a manufacturer.

A metal tank will change the profile of the bike in such a way it cannot be homologated.  Another plastic tank will be used.

so sometimes you have to bring in a 3rd party to makes someome do something that they should have done.

look nobody likes when someone else gets money for something that we think they don't deserve, but that person isn't needed if people just do their damn jobs, and in this case ducati has been doing a half assed job at best.

Please go back and look at the beginning of this thread.  I have been talking with Ducati for over a year now.  They have been doing their jobs, and there may be a lot of internal politics at Ducati that has prevented moving forward. 

However, they have been replacing EVERY single tank that comes in the door.  Dealers have been giving people problem, but not Ducati.  I have no idea how much money they've wasted doing that, especially when people continue carping about it.  I don't know of any manufacturer that will do something like this.

[duccarlos]

Not only that, but they probably have contractual obligations with Acerbis. You can't just decide to change the tank. All this lawsuit will do is increase the price of the bikes. That's it. This is the "sue first and ask questions later" mentality. Tizz, can you do something about this firm using all your work in their suit without your consent? I guess since this is a public forum, that there's very little you can do.

[duccarlos]

Going further, could Ducati use you as character witness to show that they truly have been doing their best at replacing the defective tanks?

[ducpainter]

Well...

he is quite a character.

[Howie]

Quite simply if the numbers don't add up Ducati could decide to pull out of the US if the numbers don't add up.  Alpha and Peugot aren't the only automotive companies that pulled out of the US market, add Fiat, Citroen, Renault to the count.  VW almost left in '92.  Will they pull out because of the Gobbstopper's lawsuit?  Dunno, but it could be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

Ducatiz knows much more than the legal issues here.  He also understands the EPA and DOT certification issues Ducati has to go through to fix these problems.  Listen to him.

[muskrat]

I'm NOT an Attorney and certainly NOT a manufacturer but I went through 2 tanks on my S2R in less than a year.  Fortunately our dealer in DFW was great and replaced them both no questions asked.  I have to think that doing just that was more expensive, if it happens regularly, than just creating a new tank.  In any event I hope this gets resolved quickly and not bump the price of the new Strada to the Stratosphere, at least not before I buy one. 

[J.P.]

I am curious where you read that.  Paragraph 21 claims that Ducati developed an aluminum tank in 2006 "behind the scenes" but no other place that I see outside of that mention.

Oopse- only mentioned twice, not several times. Can't remember which section now, think it was pg 8(?).

[Spidey]

I just read the complaint.  Interesting . . . 

[sbrguy]

well hopefully ducati will fix this problem sooner not later, yes its not easy changing fuel tanks and such, but they have to come up with a solution sooner not later.

i for one will not get a 2010 ducati which is now on sale at local dealers because of this very tank issue popping up.  like i said, my money to ducait really doesn't matter because its chump change to them in the long run.  about the only people they will get to buy the new bikes are new people because older customers may wait this one out, which when you think about it, all they should care about is new customers.

[ducatiz]

...which when you think about it, all they should care about is new customers.

old customers buy parts and at some point upgrade (or replace) their bikes.

plus, current customers join ducati clubs and wear ducati gear, which is seen by non-owners who may be convinced to buy one.

i know my buddy bought an S2R just like mine after trying mine out.

[mitt]

I wonder if Ducati did themselves more harm than good by changing out tanks.  That is an admission of a problem and should make this suit a slam dunk.

I work in an design and manufacturing company, and I still can't believe it is more expensive to redesign and make a new plastic tank than performing all these goodwill replacements, multiple times per bike.

I doubt any of the major bike brands actually make the tanks either.  It is an outside supplier (maybe only 1 or 2 in the world), so this should not be rocket science.


mitt

[ducatiz]

I wonder if Ducati did themselves more harm than good by changing out tanks.  That is an admission of a problem and should make this suit a slam dunk.

I work in an design and manufacturing company, and I still can't believe it is more expensive to redesign and make a new plastic tank than performing all these goodwill replacements, multiple times per bike.

I don't think they did any harm.  If anything, it shows a costly attempt to keep bikes in running shape while they seek a solution.

I believe the problem in finding a replacement is two fold:  1, alternative materials are not as easy to homologate and/or paint to the same quality as the original and 2, the original material would be just fine if they could use some sort of barrier coating for the inner layer which would not prevent the original tank from being homologated.

The main materials used for gas tanks are layered HDPE and PEX.

HDPE is not finishable to the same quality.

PEX is more problematic to finish. 

I don't know of any other materials being used in gas tanks besides PA6.