Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates

[Bill in OKC]

Not for the faint of heart - this made me feel a bit queasy like doing taxes only worse.

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/docservlet/Artemis/Public/Pursuits/2010/PE/INIM-PE10045-42821.pdf

[BoDiddley]

Craige / Tech Support / Caswell has given us answers to some of our questions.  I will cut and paste his response to a questionaire email that i sent him.
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Craige : At this time there are  31420 views so there is a few riders needing answers on how to fix the problem of tank expansion in Ducati's.  I will list them so I can cut and past this whole bit in the thread.  Or which every way you are comfortable with.  The riders thank you
 
Craig : If you have any tips "PLEASE" feel free to help.

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It seems a bit thick to get around and cover all the tanks interior?  Can it be thinned?

The gas tank sealer can be thinned using Xylene or lacquer thinner. You can add no more than 5% by volume ( 1 fl oz for the motorcycle kit). This serves to retard the cure cycle and thin the sealer somewhat to expand coverage.

Is it a solvent that will have a molecular connection with the tank?

Once applied it will permanently bond to the tank it is an epoxy.

If the tank continues to shrink will this cause a problem with adhesion?

No, it is a hard finish.

Screws are getting stuck in the tanks, are they really necessary?

For a plastic tank it is not necessary to use the screws.

Will double the amount make it easier to coat?

It will provide a thicker layer and give you more volume to slosh around.

Does the MEK (acetone) actually soften the plastic or is it used just for cleaning?

If you are dealing with a plastic tank you do not have to use the acetone. Acetone will attack the plastic if left in over about 10 minutes. You will only use the acetone if the tank has cured and you require an additional coating due to incomplete coverage. The  acetone is poured in and sloshed around for about 5 to 7 minutes to make the existing coating tacky, poured out allowed to evaporate and the second coating is applied.

If not MEK what soap would work?

No MEK, dawn dish washing detergent and hot water to clean, then rinse with hot water and allow to dry before applying the Caswell Gas Tank Sealer.

How thick is the coating?

About 1/16" +/-

Do you advise coating twice?

Not usually necessary unless you see gaps where it did not flow to an area.

Feel free to add any comments.

Caswell Gas Tank Sealer GTS1750

http://caswellplating.com/aids/epoxygas.htm

[ducatiz]

Not for the faint of heart - this made me feel a bit queasy like doing taxes only worse.

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/docservlet/Artemis/Public/Pursuits/2010/PE/INIM-PE10045-42821.pdf

The main points to note are:

1.  it's an official communication and Ducati has to respond with the information requested.
2.  NHTSA has had 13 reports of LEAKING tanks.  This isn't deformation by itself, it is deformation that has led to actual leaking of gasoline.
3.  NHTSA seems to think that the leaking is unrelated to the deformation issue.

[ducatiz]

Does the MEK (acetone) actually soften the plastic or is it used just for cleaning?

MEK (Methyl Ethyl Ketone) and Acetone are two different chemicals, same family, but not the same.  MEK is 2-butanone and Acetone is 2-propanone.  Both ketones, but definitely not the same stuff.

[BoDiddley]

MEK (Methyl Ethyl Ketone) and Acetone are two different chemicals, same family, but not the same.  MEK is 2-butanone and Acetone is 2-propanone.  Both ketones, but definitely not the same stuff.

Do they both have the same effect on the tank material?  Which would be better for addesion purposes?

[ducatiz]

Do they both have the same effect on the tank material?  Which would be better for addesion purposes?

I don't know, there are chem engs around who can tell you that, but I assume both will attack the Nylon if applied in any significant concentration or duration.  For the purposes of thinning the Caswells, I assume both are ok, but I am more familiar with using MEK>

[mitt]

Ford and GM join legal fight over the 15% Ethanol

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ford-gm-join-legal-fight-against-higher-ethanol-2010-12-20

Send a letter to your congress representatives - I did.


mitt

[myleslong]

Well..BoDiddley,
You got different answers from Caswell than I did. When I asked about skipping the Acetone and screws, I was cautioned not to skip this step. If I had gotten the answers you did, I would have avoided the whole paint issue. According to Caswell's answers to your questions, the acetone is not necessary for "plastic" tanks. As I noted on my original post, I couldn't tell any difference in the surface after I did my tank, so I would skip the acetone completely. Also the screws.
By the way, acetone eats the sticky on duct tape in about 1/3 a second, so don't expect duct tape to hold back acetone.
I made a steel plate with an inner tube gasket to cover the fuel pump hole and used an automotive expandable rubber freeze plug to plug the gas filler hole. But as stated earlier...don't even use the acetone and all should be good.
 To answer another question that was asked...I did 2 coats because the quantity of the motorcycle kit is for two 5 gal tanks. I was trying to ensure that I had good coverage. Yes, thin Caswells with lacquer thinner. Just follow the directions.
Strangely, when I got my new (3rd) tank, the dealer still had my original tank which was replaced almost 1 year ago to the day in his storage holding area. Unfortunately, the ripples in the knee cutouts were still very obvious. I can't say if the tank had shrunk any, but cosmetically is still looked terrible. (Black S4rs)
Regards,
Myles

[ducpainter]

<snip>

The best way to do it is to keep the ingredients at room temp or above, around 70-75 F.  If you thin, then go very conservatively and use no more than 2-3 drops at a time. 

Izaak...if you've ever used the Caswell you'd see it doesn't need to be thinned a drop or two at a time...

an ounce at a time is more like it.

Someone described it like honey...it is...if you keep your honey in the fridge.

[jgrm1]

NHTSA seems to think that the leaking is unrelated to the deformation issue.

...and the 2008 model year is not affected.  I assume none of the reported leakers were 2008s, though.

-Jeff

[ducatiz]

Its solely based on the reports.  For example, the lawsuit has a 2009 SBK .

[corey]

looking through that PDF, it seems that because of the reported leakage issues, a recall may be pursued.
as they (ducati) would be unable to determine which tanks will leak, and which will not, would this not then lend itself to a recall of all plastic tanks for Monsters Model Year 2004-2007 (according to the document)

[ducatiz]

looking through that PDF, it seems that because of the reported leakage issues, a recall may be pursued.
as they (ducati) would be unable to determine which tanks will leak, and which will not, would this not then lend itself to a recall of all plastic tanks for Monsters Model Year 2004-2007 (according to the document)

What I am irritated with is that they seem to exclude the tank deformation as a potential cause of the leak occurring.  It's bizarre.  It's a plastic tank, with a plastic flange and that flange is leaking.  Flange is only going to leak because you put a crappy Oring on it, the fuel pump casting doesn't fit or the hole is changing shape.  Hello??

But yes, if they find a defect (and NHTSA requires it to be "DANGEROUS" for it to be a legal defect.  "mere" deformation may not be dangerous -- ie.. legal defect. ) they can force a recall.

[Bill in OKC]

The 2008 S4Rs Tricolor, even though it is the same bike as a 2007 S4Rs except for the paint scheme, is not included?  

[BoDiddley]

I recieved my Caswell today and then an hour later my dealer sent this email.

"Great news,  Thanks to your efforts with the photos, Ducati North America has approved the replacement of your fuel tank. I will call you when the tank arrives. I ordered all the hardware necessary to make the swap. You can bring the bike to us or just the tank. I will need to retain the old tank for 90 days. Either way works for me!"

My man must have found the right route to the mountain top?  Of course I am not actually looking at the tank yet.  But if one dealer can do it.  Am I opening up my big mouth risking bad karma or rath from the Duca gods, what the hell I can still fix my old tank.

07 S4Rs  Red/white