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Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates
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Topic: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates (Read 699738 times)
mjk778
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Re: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates
«
Reply #1335 on:
January 17, 2011, 07:40:18 AM »
Quote from: jgrm1 on January 16, 2011, 09:14:12 AM
The finish on my replacement S2R1000 tank is fine, but the cutout on the strip is not centered around the fuel filler as well as the stock one.
-Jeff
Mine is the same.
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BoDiddley
Sr. Member
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S4Rs In Michigan
Re: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates
«
Reply #1336 on:
January 17, 2011, 04:13:07 PM »
Quote from: Desert Dust on January 16, 2011, 01:14:08 PM
It has been 2 months since my S2R 1K tank was replaced, and there is no sign of swelling. No Caswell treatment was applied.
By the way, the new tank looks great as far as finish is concerned.
Just curious, why would you not but a coating on the inside if you no it is going to swell?
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"But sire what are we to do. You have taken all our weapons and now the heathen hordes are at the gate. Are we to lie down and give them our lives. Without weapons they will make us eat ourselves."
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Re: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates
«
Reply #1337 on:
January 17, 2011, 06:05:10 PM »
^^^^^^
The dealer in San Diego told me that he had not had any problems with the replacement tanks.
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07 S2R 1K: "You are not special. You're not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else. We're all part of the same compost heap. We're all singing, all dancing crap of the world.”
DRKWNG
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Re: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates
«
Reply #1338 on:
January 18, 2011, 03:57:06 AM »
Quote from: Desert Dust on January 17, 2011, 06:05:10 PM
^^^^^^
The dealer in San Diego told me that he had not had any problems with the replacement tanks.
Then his replacement tanks are either sitting on his shelves, or he lied.
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ducatiz
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Re: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates
«
Reply #1339 on:
January 18, 2011, 04:07:23 AM »
Quote from: DRKWNG on January 18, 2011, 03:57:06 AM
Then his replacement tanks are either sitting on his shelves, or he lied.
Not necessarily. The problem with anecdotal information is that it is not verifiable.
Moreover, gas formulations vary even during the year, so his replacement tanks may have been lucky. If the percent by volume of ethanol locally has been lower for whatever reason, then the expansion problem will show up slower. Also, did he coat the tanks??
However, just because no one complained yet doesn't mean it hasn't happened. If he can show that he followed up with every customer that got a tank replacement, then I'll buy it, otherwise "take with a grain of salt."
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"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the air—these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.
J.P.
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Re: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates
«
Reply #1340 on:
January 18, 2011, 06:10:37 AM »
My first tank took about 2 yrs for any deformation to show. Give it some time.
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'06 S2R1k- Have a nice day!
hillbillypolack
Sr. Member
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Posts: 470
Re: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates
«
Reply #1341 on:
January 18, 2011, 06:20:41 AM »
Seems that during part of this discussion, I read something about the tanks' ability to return to original shape. Meaning that if the tank was drained of gas, it would naturally 'dry out' and return to its desired shape.
Of course I haven't seen in personally, but could this be true, and if so, what's the time required to 'dry it out'?
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DRKWNG
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Re: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates
«
Reply #1342 on:
January 18, 2011, 08:18:05 AM »
They can apparently return to their original shape, but according to a few big brained chemistry people, the actual alteration to the material's properties do not return; thus leaving you with a weakened (theoretical) fuel tank.
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ducatiz
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Re: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates
«
Reply #1343 on:
January 18, 2011, 08:19:54 AM »
The tank wall will dry out enough to shrink but it is unlikely all of the moisture has come out. There is no set time, but it is probably predictably long or short according to how long it took to deform. Also, it is unknown to what extent ethanol affects the integrity of the material. Some types of nylon are SOLUBLE in ethanol.
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"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the air—these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.
Scissors
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Re: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates
«
Reply #1344 on:
January 18, 2011, 09:40:41 AM »
Nylon 6,6 properties:
http://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?bassnum=O2500&group=General&ckck=1
Edit: Fixed the link:
http://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=a2e79a3451984d58a8a442c37a226107&ckck=1
Here's a study done on the effects of E20 on various plastics, including Nylon 6,6:
http://www.mda.state.mn.us/news/publications/renewable/ethanol/e20onplastics.pdf
«
Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 09:43:04 AM by Scissors
»
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ducatiz
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Re: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates
«
Reply #1345 on:
January 18, 2011, 10:23:21 AM »
Quote from: Scissors on January 18, 2011, 09:40:41 AM
Nylon 6,6 properties:
http://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?bassnum=O2500&group=General&ckck=1
Here's a study done on the effects of E20 on various plastics, including Nylon 6,6:
http://www.mda.state.mn.us/news/publications/renewable/ethanol/e20onplastics.pdf
The Minnesota study is well known. The material is not Nylon 6,6 but Nylon 6 or PA6.
For those who don't want to sort, the results show a minus 0.5 of weight and minus 0.4 decrease in volume (size) with regular gasoline, a ~9% increase in weight and ~11% volume in the presence of E10 fuel, and a ~9.5% increase in weight and a ~12% increase in volume in the presence of E20 fuel.
As one increases the percent volume of ethanol in solution, the material expands/absorbs more.
The study does not consider any other properties of the materials, such as water absorption.
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"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the air—these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.
Scissors
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Re: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates
«
Reply #1346 on:
January 19, 2011, 09:45:36 AM »
Quote from: ducatiz on January 18, 2011, 10:23:21 AM
The Minnesota study is well known. The material is not Nylon 6,6 but Nylon 6 or PA6.
For those who don't want to sort, the results show a minus 0.5 of weight and minus 0.4 decrease in volume (size) with regular gasoline, a ~9% increase in weight and ~11% volume in the presence of E10 fuel, and a ~9.5% increase in weight and a ~12% increase in volume in the presence of E20 fuel.
As one increases the percent volume of ethanol in solution, the material expands/absorbs more.
The study does not consider any other properties of the materials, such as water absorption.
Actually, the study did include water in the test fuel to better simulate the real world. That would be why E20 didn't cause significantly more mass/volume gain than E10 even though it has twice the ethanol.
And I've been told Nylon 6,6 everywhere else I've read up on the issue. So it's really Nylon 6?
Either way, the matweb link shows that Nylon 6,6 absorbs up to 9% (in terms of mass increase), which jibes very closely with the Minnesota study. Nylon 6 is similar, with the ability to increase its mass by up to 10% through water absorption.
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ducatiz
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Re: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates
«
Reply #1347 on:
January 19, 2011, 11:03:16 AM »
Quote from: Scissors on January 19, 2011, 09:45:36 AM
Actually, the study did include water in the test fuel to better simulate the real world. That would be why E20 didn't cause significantly more mass/volume gain than E10 even though it has twice the ethanol.
And I've been told Nylon 6,6 everywhere else I've read up on the issue. So it's really Nylon 6?
Either way, the matweb link shows that Nylon 6,6 absorbs up to 9% (in terms of mass increase), which jibes very closely with the Minnesota study. Nylon 6 is similar, with the ability to increase its mass by up to 10% through water absorption.
The nylon type is stated on the tank itself. Look on the bottom. PA6.
The increase difference between the E10 and E20 fuels may in fact be significant, that's a separate study. As far as the MN test's inclusion of water, it isn't the point of the study so they weren't looking at water absorption. However, PA6's water absorption rate increases as the temperature increases.
Put a half gallon of hot water into your tank and in the morning it will look like a balloon.
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"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the air—these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.
BoDiddley
Sr. Member
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Posts: 376
S4Rs In Michigan
Re: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates
«
Reply #1348 on:
February 01, 2011, 08:59:53 AM »
I thought maybe I should stick this in here as I got zero response on it from the tech department, my tank had expanded length wise so much I could not get it off and on with out a screw driver. Unless mine is a worst case scenario, just curious to know what is everyone doing about their particular problem? They will keep expanding.
http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=46057.0
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"But sire what are we to do. You have taken all our weapons and now the heathen hordes are at the gate. Are we to lie down and give them our lives. Without weapons they will make us eat ourselves."
Meerkat
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Re: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates
«
Reply #1349 on:
February 01, 2011, 08:01:24 PM »
Had the same problem with mine, BoDiddley...as long as your talking about using the screwdriver to remove the tank from the bike hinge first. My latch was fully inoperable because the tank was swollen to the point that it was pushed all the way up against the ignition housing. Only thing to do is take it in for replacement. Don't forget to fill out the NHTSA complaint.
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'07 S2R1K
'09 Daytona 675
'03 620 Dark-Sold 03/26/2011
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