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Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates
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Topic: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates (Read 699718 times)
NorDog
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Re: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates
«
Reply #1860 on:
October 19, 2011, 11:28:26 AM »
Quote from: j v on October 19, 2011, 09:25:24 AM
4-7 lbs up top? I'd call that significant for "up top" weight. .... "stranded or killed" ...
... reductio ad absurdum.
If you're charging that he has employed a rational fallacy, I think you mean "false dichotomy".
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A man in passion rides a mad horse. -- Ben Franklin
junior varsity
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Re: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates
«
Reply #1861 on:
October 19, 2011, 11:31:41 AM »
only that a swelling tank could get you "killed" was taking something to such an extreme as to be absurd. next minute someone else will chime in by accusing another of invading poland. (a la Godwin's law)
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NorDog
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Re: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates
«
Reply #1862 on:
October 19, 2011, 01:43:28 PM »
Quote from: j v on October 19, 2011, 11:31:41 AM
only that a swelling tank could get you "killed" was taking something to such an extreme as to be absurd. next minute someone else will chime in by accusing another of invading poland. (a la Godwin's law)
I don't know, I've heard some of the tanks leak at the pump flange.
If mine was leaking when the voltage regulator caught fire there's no tellin' what would have happened to me.
Basically, it's not unreasonable to think that having a fuel fire in you crotch/ass area while lane splitting rush hour LA traffic on the highway might be a deadly experience.
Also, generally, as a logical device, the reductio ad absurdum actually proves the point to be made by showing the contrary to be impossible. So, that's why I thought you were referring to "logic". I would have understood better if you had just said, "Dude, that's absurd!" But then, I can be obtuse.
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A man in passion rides a mad horse. -- Ben Franklin
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Re: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates
«
Reply #1863 on:
October 19, 2011, 02:00:06 PM »
Never saw a leaky tank flange while working at the dealership, not that it could happen, but didn't see one once. Nor did any of the other guys while I was there
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ducatiz
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Re: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates
«
Reply #1864 on:
October 19, 2011, 02:23:20 PM »
I have video of a dozen bikes with leaky flanges.
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"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the air—these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.
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Re: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates
«
Reply #1865 on:
October 19, 2011, 03:41:56 PM »
interesting. i've seen leaky flanges unrelated to tank expansion (bad {misshapen}o-rings, torn o-rings, dried-out/rotten o-rings), but not on any of the warranty-for-swelling tanks while i was at AMS, and we did a TON of them. Tons of 848's, Monsters, and Sport Classics - primarily ones that had been sitting quite a while. (several Sport 1000's with almost no miles on them stored primarily for looking at - but with gas in the tank... a plan i could not understand whatsoever)
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DRKWNG
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Re: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates
«
Reply #1866 on:
October 19, 2011, 05:35:26 PM »
Quote from: j v on October 19, 2011, 03:41:56 PM
several Sport 1000's with almost no miles on them stored primarily for looking at - but with gas in the tank... a plan i could not understand whatsoever
Ride one some time, then maybe you'll start to understand.
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And the sugar fountain fairy swore so hard when she came to super-size that stale hope soybean; liiiike a homeless German woman. Who is this super-sizing spirit-crushing femme? And tell her I'll break a tree root up in her shrimp.
Being faster than you thought possible…it feels good. No, screw that—it feels like shotgunning a gallon of adrenaline and chasing it with an all-night orgy aboard a burning Viking boat.
muskrat
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Re: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates
«
Reply #1867 on:
October 21, 2011, 07:31:03 AM »
Ive never seen this much "explaining away" for a defective tank. We are true Duc whores who refuse to accept a truly shitty design. Include all other manufacturers if you like.
I expect my two ducs to be buried with me unless things change and ill ask the funeral director to flog my Hardly in honor of JV who believes it cant be done.
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Can we thin the gene pool?
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dlowenst
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Re: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates
«
Reply #1868 on:
October 21, 2011, 07:41:34 AM »
Thanks for the feedback. So now I could really use a good recommendation for a shop to do the Caswell coating. I know there have been a few vendors mentioned in this and other threads, but I'm hoping specifically for a place in the eastern half of the U.S. to minimize shipping time and cost (I'm in Washington DC), a track record of having done this coating successfully, and obviously competitive pricing would be great too
Any suggestions?
Dave
Quote from: ducatiz on October 18, 2011, 02:35:47 PM
Absolutely. Once it has gas on it you've got to cleanse the gas and let it completely dry.
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Dave in DC: 67 Jaguar E-Type OTS S1/71 Ford F-100 Styleside/79 Triumph T140E Bonneville/15 BMW R1200GS/13 KTM 300 XC-W/04 Yamaha TT-R250/04 & 05 Honda CRF 250X/Keeping parts guys in business nationwide
DRKWNG
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Re: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates
«
Reply #1869 on:
October 21, 2011, 01:37:16 PM »
Quote from: dlowenst on October 21, 2011, 07:41:34 AM
I'm in Washington DC,
Any suggestions?
Izaak wants to do it for you.
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And the sugar fountain fairy swore so hard when she came to super-size that stale hope soybean; liiiike a homeless German woman. Who is this super-sizing spirit-crushing femme? And tell her I'll break a tree root up in her shrimp.
Being faster than you thought possible…it feels good. No, screw that—it feels like shotgunning a gallon of adrenaline and chasing it with an all-night orgy aboard a burning Viking boat.
DesmoDad
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Re: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates
«
Reply #1870 on:
October 24, 2011, 07:40:14 PM »
I just had my tank replaced by Ducati (and the dealer, Erico Motorsports). They confirmed that the ethanol is definitely the problem... Now, according the EM, I should drain the tank and use fuel stabilizer when I am running it... but there isn't a month that I don't ride, so really don't want to drain it for the winter. My mechanic tells me that he has heard the new tank is supposed to be made of a different plastic and will not have the same problem. Does anyone know the latest on the tank problem?
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ducatiz
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Re: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates
«
Reply #1871 on:
October 24, 2011, 07:41:03 PM »
Quote from: DRKWNG on October 21, 2011, 01:37:16 PM
Izaak wants to do it for you.
what is "it"?
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Check out my oil filter forensics thread!
Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the air—these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.
ducatiz
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Re: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates
«
Reply #1872 on:
October 24, 2011, 07:44:09 PM »
Quote from: DesmoDad on October 24, 2011, 07:40:14 PM
I just had my tank replaced by Ducati (and the dealer, Erico Motorsports). They confirmed that the ethanol is definitely the problem... Now, according the EM, I should drain the tank and use fuel stabilizer when I am running it... but there isn't a month that I don't ride, so really don't want to drain it for the winter. My mechanic tells me that he has heard the new tank is supposed to be made of a different plastic and will not have the same problem. Does anyone know the latest on the tank problem?
1. Fuel stabilizer will only help minimally, if at all. Stabil, startron, etc all help combust old E10 gas, they don't prevent ethanol from absorbing water.
2. There is no new plastic, replacement tanks are all PA6 still. My replacement tank was older than my original tank, going by the inspection date on the bottom.
3. The latest is that the lawsuit produced a result that no one is really happy with except perhaps the attorneys who did it (and have been paid 800k for about 10 hours of work, having used most of my postings as a guide). The settlement is pending acceptance by the court, so here is your chance to comment on it before it's final. Scroll back a few pages to find the link or go to the sticky in this section.
4. The only solution is to coat your tank. Ducati can't do it for reasons unclear, possibly homologation issues. I tried to get them to send a tank to 3M to test it, but no go, they are in defense mode now. :-/. Lots of people using Caswell's coating with good results. Tank prep is the key.
«
Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 07:49:12 PM by ducatiz
»
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Check out my oil filter forensics thread!
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"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the air—these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.
Curmudgeon
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Re: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates
«
Reply #1873 on:
October 24, 2011, 08:22:38 PM »
Quote from: ducatiz on October 24, 2011, 07:44:09 PM
1. Fuel stabilizer will only help minimally, if at all. Stabil, startron, etc all help combust old E10 gas, they don't prevent ethanol from absorbing water.
No experience with Startron but Sta-Bil and Sta-Bil Marine claim to remove water. You have data which refutes this? Sta-Bil has been at this for 75 years and has wide manufacturer approval.
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ducatiz
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Re: Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates
«
Reply #1874 on:
October 24, 2011, 08:29:38 PM »
Quote from: Curmudgeon on October 24, 2011, 08:22:38 PM
No experience with Startron but Sta-Bil and Sta-Bil Marine claim to remove water. You have data which refutes this? Sta-Bil has been at this for 75 years and has wide manufacturer approval.
You put it in your tank with the gas and then what?
It magically disappears? If it removes the water, where does it go?
According to the MSDS sheets for Stabil, Stabil Marine and Startron, they are all between 94 and 96 percent petroleum naphtha. The other 4-6% is listed as inert "additive mixture" which does not have any special properties necessary to be listed on the MSDS.
What's frustrating is that all of the fuel stabilizers on the market employ naphtha or some alcohol as the primary ingredient. 2-propanol, butyl alcohol, isopropyl, etc. Seems to me it's just adding more problematic stuff to the mix. propanol is aggressively hygroscopic.
So it could be that 4-6% by volume is the magic ingredient, but I doubt it. I bet if you bought pure petroleum naphtha and put it in your tank it would do the same job.
«
Last Edit: October 24, 2011, 08:34:38 PM by ducatiz
»
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Check out my oil filter forensics thread!
Offended? Click here
"Yelling out of cars, turning your speakers out the window to blast your music onto the street, setting off M-80 firecrackers, firing automatic weapons into the air—these are all well and good. But none of them create a merry atmosphere of insouciance and bonhomie quite like a revving motorcycle.
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