Plastic Tank problems: Discussion thread, see info thread sticky for updates

[thought]

Any reports about Monster 1100 EVO tank issues?
Is this BS?

http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2011/04/17-high-res-photos-of-the-ducati-monster-1100-evo/#more-16437

"Update: Ducati tell us the plastic fuel tanks on this new generation
Monster and the Diavel are now impervious to the deformation caused by
US fuel’s ethanol content which affected older models."

there have been reports of the new monster's expanding as it's the same material as before.  the big diff is that it's just not as noticeable due to the tank skins.

[hillbillypolack]

P.S.  Is anyone formally protesting the settlement to the court?

Yes, I will be protesting and writing a lengthy letter to the address provided on the settlement.

Part of the letter will be documenting the history of etanol in NA gasoline mixtures.  This should have been considered when Ducati (or its suppliers) formulated the tanks:


From the EIA:

1975: The United States begins to phase out lead in gasoline. Ethanol becomes more attractive as a possible octane booster for gasoline. The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) issued the initial regulations, requiring reduced levels of lead in gasoline in early 1973. By 1986 no lead was allowed in motor gasoline.

1978: The term gasohol was defined, for the first time, in the Energy Tax Act of 1978. Gasohol was defined as a blend of gasoline with at least 10 percent alcohol by volume, excluding alcohol made from petroleum, natural gas, or coal. For this reason, all ethanol to be blended into gasoline is produced from renewable biomass feedstocks. The Federal excise tax on gasoline at the time was 4 cents per gallon. This law amounted to a 40-cents-per-gallon subsidy for every gallon of ethanol blended into gasoline.

1979: The marketing of commercial alcohol-blended fuels began by the Amoco Oil Company, followed by Ashland, Chevron, Beacon, and Texaco. About $1 billion eventually went to biomass-related projects from the Department of the Interior and Related Agencies Appropriation Act.

Of course this has been discussed several times.

Part 2 of the letter is to have some consideration of owners covering some part of the expense of a new, permanent fix for the tanks.  Meaning that if you were offered a non-expanding tank, or a metal tank at a nominal cost, the owner would (could) be willing to pay for it.  It could be a DP item, but at the very least it gets The Company thinking about lessening the impact of full-blown tooling and evaluation of said tank.

[hillbillypolack]

there have been reports of the new monster's expanding as it's the same material as before.  the big diff is that it's just not as noticeable due to the tank skins.

1200 Multis have been going badly though.  Here's a quote from a Multi 1200 owner (Ducati enthusiast) on ADVrider's forums:

The settlement leaves a lot to be desired. The coverage for my Multistrada 1200 is limited to issues with clearance and the tank fitting in the frame, and does nothing to address the swelling of the tank and the effect it has on the painted bodypanel fit, which is literally bursting at the seams.

http://advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=17366301&postcount=26

[muskrat]

I was told today that labor is no longer part of the tank replacement by someone who went to a shop.  Maybe some people are jumping ahead of the lawsuit settlement? 

[Frisco]

no one has reported that to me

I'm the guy who just bought a gorgeous 2007 (less than 6 years) S4RS two weeks ago - I noticed some ripples in the side an thought oh well but then when the latch wouldn't open and the dealer (AMS in Dallas) looked at it and said yes it needs a new tank I thouhgt thats great - I hadn't heard about the problem before I bought the bike - certainly would have made me think twice. Anyhow they told me today I'm responsible for the labor because Ducati is doing the tank replacement out of good will - I asked if I could do it myself and they said no that wasn't allowed because it was a warranty issue - they want $150 to replace the tank - it's the second time a tank has been replaced on that bike - first one (in 2009 out of original warranty I beleive) was done at no cost to the owner. I think I will be calling Ducati North America Monday.
Anyone interested in a great 2007 S4RS, full Termis, ECU, shorty levers, open clutch, 1K miles on the tires, never been down (I know the 3 previous owners), Rizoma resovoirs and brackets - make me an offer.

I need to know soon about the labor because it's scheduled to go down 12/3 for the new tank - can I go to another dealer if they won't charge the labor since AMS already got the replacement tank?

[muskrat]

correction.......you were told, by ME. 

[thought]

i'd contact dna and talk to them... with so many cases of tanks being replaced gratis there is no reason at all anyone should have to pay for it.

[HotIce]

there have been reports of the new monster's expanding as it's the same material as before.  the big diff is that it's just not as noticeable due to the tank skins.

I'd be fine if the tank expands (a little), and long as the fit within the bike allows it, from a safety, cosmetic and overall mechanical structure POV.

[thought]

I'd be fine if the tank expands (a little), and long as the fit within the bike allows it, from a safety, cosmetic and overall mechanical structure POV.

i wouldnt even accept that as expansion doesnt really stop.  i'd get it replaced and coated just so you know it wont expand at all in the future.

[jgrm1]

the dealer (AMS in Dallas)...they want $150 to replace the tank - it's the second time a tank has been replaced on that bike - first one (in 2009 out of original warranty I beleive) was done at no cost to the owner.

It was AMS I visited on Tuesday.  They replaced my original tank for free under warranty.  I was told Tuesday the $150-200 was for labor to coat the tank with Caswell.  For information, I visited Big D before going to AMS and learned AMS is contracting the tank lining to Big D.

-Jeff

[Frisco]

It was AMS I visited on Tuesday.  They replaced my original tank for free under warranty.  I was told Tuesday the $150-200 was for labor to coat the tank with Caswell.  For information, I visited Big D before going to AMS and learned AMS is contracting the tank lining to Big D.

-Jeff

Funny but thats a completely different story than what they told me Wed - nothing was mentioned about coating the tank - they are recomending using K100 which they are going to start carrying - not sure if your bike is out of original warranty or not - that might have something to do with it.

[junior varsity]

Lawyer here.

No small claims court I know of would allow that kind of suit.  Small claims is for return of property or contract breach (i.e. party D owes party P money).  There are a few other types of claims, but defective product and/or failure to honor warranty aren't one of them.

You might do better with a Lemon Law claim, but generally the remedy for a Lemon Law claim is the manufacturer has to buy your vehicle for estimated market price.

Also lawyer (multi generational family of lawyers at thanksgiving to boot) - had discussion over t-giving dinner and all agreed you ought to (a) coat tank, (b) protest settlement in writing if you don't like it - many should pay someone who can write well to do it for you, (c) save pennies for carbon/kevlar (eti) or aluminum tank if you like everything about your bike except for ethanol-fuel expansion possibility.

this was a "what would i do if it was my bike" hypothetical posed to those in the family that rode.   My ol' man, who is a harley & ducati rider, didn't believe something "as trivial" as having to coat a tank to prevent expansion is a big deal if you like the bike in all other aspects.

my personal thoughts re: settlement is that Ducati isn't out all that much in the end - they are extending their promise/warranty on replacing tanks for a set period of time which I think is very nice, but ought to contract with a domestic company who offers a coating service (or recommend dealerships to do this individually) to offer to replacement-tank owners at a discount (contracted lower labor rate for essentially a "needs-based" contract).

My three part related opinion on the matter:
- i would coat the damn tank and go back to my normal life of tinkering with other stuff and riding
- at least ducati isn't giving owners the middle finger denying all warranty claims for using ethanol-blend gasoline (the owners manuals, iirc, do indicate 'gasoline' of a certain octane and make no mention of using a blended fuel as acceptable)
- not good for brand image, but to the non-duc owners in my fam, they didn't seem to care - relegating the fuel system's tank to being only 1 component among thousands, and an easy solution is available

[thought]

just had the new tank put in on the sfs, but one issue that came up after we got the old tank off is that plastic side panels have now warped due to how badly swelled the previous tank was.  they no longer sit flush with the tank and now bow out with maybe a quarter inch of space between the panels and the new tank.

does ducati cover this under their warranty too?  for parts damaged due to the tank expansion?  the dealer said it was pretty iffy on whether or not they would cover it and said they would most likely not cover it.

anyone else have something like this happen to them?

[ducatiz]

the settlement covers damaged Ducati branded parts

[Desert Dust]

My dealer said that Ducati would not replace a swollen tank if it had been coated. True?