exhaust packing?

[eesnas]

er... so I might have just made a mess of my pipes, or I am doing everything correct. Either way, I am completely unsure, hence I will post here and hope that someone is able to help.

I have Sil low mount Megaphones that were painted but the finish didn't hold up. I want to have them ceramic coated but I wanted my rivets and end caps to stay silver, I decided the best approach was to take the pipes apart. I carefully drilled out the rivets and removed the end caps and then BAM, the unexpected exhaust packing, what to do with it?!!

I decided to start pulling it out, sheets of it seemingly endless, just when I thought I was at the bottom, more packing underneath. Keep in mind these pipes are long and get skinny towards where it meets the header. I dug as much out with a coat hanger but I simply cannot get the very last of it out. The other pipe didn't have sheets but just loose strands of packing, this proved even more difficult to dig out. Having no tight deadline I decided to give up and ask questions here before I waste anymore time potentially doing something wrong.

the pipes probably have only 500 miles on them, this packing stuff does not look like rocket science, when these come back ceramic coated can I just stuff the packing back in with a wooden dowel or do I need to use a special technique with new packing? It generally looks like they stuffed it in a uniform manner, make the sheets into a ring and stuff it in and the other pipe just has loose strands so that seems like it will take less thinking to pack it all back in.

Problem is I cannot get it all out, any reccommended tools? So far the wire coat hanger is spent...

Last thing- As I am doing all this I am thinking "ok, now I gotta pull the rest of this crap out, pay to get these coated, re-pack them with this crap, buy a rivet gun and rivets to close it up, and make sure I don't scratch them up when I am reassembling." I like doing stuff with a wrench when I know what I am doing, with this I just feel somewhat like I might be making mistakes. I have thought of just ordering some Termis a few times to avoid all this extra work but I really like the look of the pipes I have. Termis are damn cool too but I would mainly be buying because I am giving up or failing, I am not convinced I failed just yet.

Can anyone tell me how to dig out that last bottom amounts of packing? You guys think I am on the right track? I really hope I didn't waste my time pulling these apart, without the rivets and the ends silver it just wouldn't look right, my understanding is that rivets cannot be masked when ceramic coating...  Am I on the right track here?

[He Man]

usually packing is some sort of fiber, most often in a sheet thats easily installed. You should of just let them to mask it off, or just take a piece of sanding paper and sand off the bits you didnt want covered.

if there are rivets at the other end, then drill those out. if not then, i cant help you much since i dont know what they look like. keep scraping? lol good luck mate, post pics if no one else can help. itll help get some ideas flowing.

[eesnas]

My story in pictures...


This is what I want the pipes to look like, notice the end caps and rivets are not painted:

The finish in the picture didn't hold up so good so that is why I am going with ceramic coating...

I drilled out the rivets and removed my end caps, here is what one of the end caps looks like:


From the first pipe I opened, I must have yanked at least 10 sheets like this, probably more, they were really packed tight in there and what I pulled out fills an entire paper shopping bag from the grocery store. It was when I encountered this packing that I began to question this whole idea:

I kept thinking I finally got to the bottom but there was always more packing, right now very deep there is still at least 1 sheet in there, I simply cannot reach it without finding a special tool, coat hanger only goes so far...

From pipe #2 it was much different, this stuff is like yarn... Just kept pulling out loose bunches, there is even more in this pipe that I cannot remove because I can't get a hold on it:


Here is a shot showing the inside of pipe #2, I can pull those loose strands but there is a boatload of this yarn-like packing much deeper:


This is just an image to summarize... You can see where the silver end caps will be, where the stainless rivets will go, and an idea of how far down this packing is. Not sure about other pipes but these are welded shut on the end where it meets the header, so basically my only option is to pull this stuff out from the wide end:




So... yeah... I might have messed up, I don't really know... Here's where I am at though and now I need to strategize. I can easily paint these, stuff the packing back in and rivet them, done. Problem is I don't think a regular rattle can paint will be rugged enough, so I want to go with ceramic coating. So if I am going to send these out somewhere I would think I need to get all that packing out. I have not yet looked at Home Depot, maybe they have some 2 foot needle nose plyers (?), if so that would make this easy, I will probably go there tomorrow seeking some type of tool for this... As you can see the packing has black marks and is obviously a little torn up, but afterall what are we really looking at here? I mean it's just packing, this stuff is basically just a bunch of fiber inside the pipe so being a little torn up or dirty should not matter, and the pipes have under 500 miles on them, I am under the impression I can just jam it all back in with a wooden dowel before I rivet these shut. Obviously I don't want to blow money on new packing, I would rather just use the same stuff I pulled out, is this reasonable? The main problem now is getting the stuff at the very bottom out of them.

Then the other idea is to just scrap this, throw it in the dumpster and buy some Termis. I hate to give up but I also don't have full confidence that this will make sense financially as I have yet to get a ceramic coat estimate. Thoughts?

I love the look of these pipes, I am pretty determined but I want to make sure I am at least on the right track with this.

[He Man]

wow. you did a number on it! If you sent out exahust pipes for ceramic coating (honestly i dont know how the process works) they should know before hand what kind of prep work is required. if its like PCing, i would of just left the packing inside.

however since youve already gone ahead and done it.... you can fashion some home made tons if you have the stuff to. but other then a steel hook, not sure what you can use. are you sure you cant knock out the inside sleeve from the outside sleeve? because it looks like they just rolled the pipe with exahust packing (you shoudlnt touch it with your bare hands, it also contains nasty little fibers that can cut up your lungs, and they are also a PITA to wash off your hands so they transfer onto everything around you) and stuff it in and perhaps weld the end shut. a repack kit is cheap, but they may have gone with two differnt rolls here since its a megaphone. Not sure, ive only repacked a uniform circular can.  as for repacking it with the stuff you got, if you can spare the extra $15 bucks or so per a can, id just get new packing. if you dont get it uniformly in there, it might not sound as good.

If I were you though, id try holding the outside sleeve nad hitting that insidep referoated tube with a hammer. if the sleeves are just wedged it should just fall through, or there might be some bolt back there. Dont know, id have to have it in my left hand with a beer in my right. lol

on a side note, i dont hink theres any point in PCing the cans themselves. kind of pointless and needless. I have Duplicolor header paint on my cans and my pipes. so far so good. i have the same stuff on my valve covers and with all the road grime rock and crap hitting it, it looks flawless still. good paint. you just need to apply it properly and then bake it.

As for a tool to get the last bit out... my chinese side says, go to your local china town and pick up chop sticks, they make 2 foot long ones for deep fryers...thats if your chopstick skills are honed. ( i eat pasta with chop sticks.. dont laugh ill poke your eyes out from 2 feet away ) or go to a local metal shop ask them for a peice of scrap iron and ben it into a hook, thats a sure fire way, a coat hanger is too flimsy. or maybe if you have a fishing hook?

can you tell me how hot the cans get? my stock cans get up to 180degrees, which is perfectly safe for powdercoating, if you're interested, you can send em my way and i can Powder Coat it for free if you cover the cost of powder and shipping.

Of course, by free, you accept the fact that there might be few small imperfections, or it might come out perfect.

[DarkStaR]

get a toothbrush sized wire brush, attach it to a stick or hangar, and use that to get the rest of the crap out.

The wire bristles should stick to the packing like velcro....should.

[eesnas]

yeah that center piece is in there, solid... I don't want to totally ruin these...

I am thinking they stuffed the packing rather than the roll like a traditional type. There is so much of it that I don't even know if packing uneaven will be possible, it's a very tight pack job.

I will hit Home Depot tomorrow then come home and gut these out with something, I am certain I can find something to get it finished.

More pics to come. I think this thread will turn into a picture log of my progress with this, stay tuned.

[Popeye the Sailor]

First things first. I would contact the place you want to do the work for you, and see what they think. They may be able to just mask the end off, leave the packing in, and do it with no issue, thus saving you no end of work. Really-I would make sure you need to do it before you continue to work at it.


I would also think re-riveting around the happy new finish is a great potential for disaster, so I would also ask if they can mask certain areas off. If so, repack, re rivet, test, then send out.

[Bun-bun]

Nortyhern tool will sell you a long needlenose pliers, but I would think a kitchen supply store would supply you with a pair of BBQ tongs that would work even better.
I also wouldn't worry about getting the interior absolutely free of packing, as the shop doing the coating should be rinsing the cans in multiple steps with different chemicals to prep the surface for the coating.
You're doing fine, don't give up!

[Scotzman]

The packing comes in sheets, so the one pipe probably got all mangled when whoever installed it. I know they make 8-10" vice grips that have a needle nose, don't know how far down you have to reach though. The wire brush idea seems pretty good though.
When you do get them back together, you can buy new packing( $10+ a pack) and roll it and then slip it in which might be easier.

 

[Scotzman]

BBQ tongs? Another good idea.

[lowendmonster]

Maybe turn the bike on and blow the crap out of the exhaust?

[eesnas]

I'd love to say I am getting good advice here but the pictures seemingly don't show it good enough for some people. There is no masking off at this point, it's all in pieces as shown in the pics; no need to call any ask a place to mask anything as it all has been removed already. About the packing: The stuff is sheets in one pipe and strands in the other, no question they packed them with different stuff on each. Nobody mangled the sheets on the install, it is entirely different stuff and at no point ever was it sheets on the second pipe I did, ever (never). Even if the strands were packaged in the shape of a sheet, they are nothing like the actual sheets from the other pipe which are actually stitched into squares.

This stuff cannot be rolled and gently slipped in, there is so much of this stuff that it was really jammed in there TIGHT. I mean I will need to really lean my weight into it to fit all this stuff back in. It was really stuffed in there tight, they clearly worked it around the center pipe but it was stuffed down and not rolled around. This is just tough to explain, if the picture doesn't clarify then I don't know how else to outline it.

I do understand there is a potential disaster with riveting after they finish it but I can't think of any other choice. I am now thinking of just hitting these with some high heat paint, putting them back together, and then if they suck I will just buy something else.

[He Man]

I just ordered some 1,000 degree high temp Powder coat. flat matt finish...

as for putting them back together, i stick with my original idea, i think the sleeve slides of from the manufcaturer. they roll it around the perf pipe and slip it into the oversleeve, then perhaps it was weld shut. 

Heres another idea, some people use stainless steel wool to pack instead of fiberglass. it would be much easier to pack that since they come in brillo pad sized packs. just stuff them in, it could get real messy but at this point i dont think you have much of a choice.

[eesnas]

I just ordered some 1,000 degree high temp Powder coat. flat matt finish...

Where'd you order from?

as for putting them back together, i stick with my original idea, i think the sleeve slides of from the manufcaturer. they roll it around the perf pipe and slip it into the oversleeve, then perhaps it was weld shut. 

I wish I could but it just won't budge, I am almost certain it's solid... I tried pulling very hard, wiggling it, I put a good amount of force into it and it seems solid.

Heres another idea, some people use stainless steel wool to pack instead of fiberglass. it would be much easier to pack that since they come in brillo pad sized packs. just stuff them in, it could get real messy but at this point i dont think you have much of a choice.

Actually, part of my confusion here is that the old packing looks like it is in good shape. I only have around 300 miles on the pipes... I like the idea of re-using what I removed since I know it is already measured. I guess my question really is, what is the harm of re-packing with the same stuff? It's in good shape, and it seems like I can stuff it back in there somewhat uniformely with a broom handle or dowel...

Last question, when people talk about baking these after painting, is this the same oven you cook dinner in? I don't think my lady will be cool with exhaust pipes in the oven we use to cook our food in, hell I am not even cool with that idea...

[He Man]

i ordered from Columbiacoatings.com i ordered some clear coat, some black ,some red and some other supplies.

Have you tried using a hammer? 

the old packing, is still usable, the problem becomes, can you pack it in so thats its uniformly dense? if you get pockets where its less dense, its going to get hot there, and it'll sound different, you can by all means do it. it might come out fine and not much different, if at all noticeable. If i were you, id just stuff it back in, but steel wool is pretty cheap too. and people say it sounds better.

as for the oven, yea if you paint it with any type of liquid paint, it cures as time progresses. I think you can consider the catalyst to be air. When you bake it after it dries, you speed up the cure time. Im not sure if this applies to liquid paint, but the main idea behind it is to heat up the base part so the paint underneath the immediate surface cures as well.

With powder coating, of course its a powder that goes on, nad you need to melt hte power so it becomes uniform. You have to have a powder coating gun, and an oven. honestly, for liquid paint, i would nEVER EVER EVER EVER use the asme oven i cook in. but for powder coating.... okay i wont lie. I made pizza in my powder coating oven once. ive inspected the inside of my oven and washed it, theres nothing on the inside when i wipe it with a rag. (stainless steel interior), but that doesnt mean you should do it.