more outrageous DMG/Buell collusion

[Grampa]

as a side note... I thought Jason Pridmore did a great job.


Time to ditch GW all together.

[EvilSteve]

I was planning on going to the round at NJMP this year but decided not to a couple of months ago because I don't want to support the DMG. I feel bad for the racers though, especially the privateers.

The whole shut-anyone-out-who's-negative thing kind of reminds me of a cult.

[gm2]

dean adams op/ed on the whole silly mess

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2009/Jul/090722olliedean.htm

[superjohn]

Is the 1125RR legal for the Daytona Sportbike and that Sport Touring Twins class as well?

[Nekkid Tim]

Read somewhere that HD's sales are down 90% over the same period as last year....you can bet the ranch that they'll be colluding as hard as they possibly can to get that free advertising....

And while I'm on my soapbox....let's not forget that HD would have gone bye-bye in the '70s if the US Congress hadn't stepped in and passed protectionist legislation that made Jap (read Honda) imports extraordinarliy expensive....

Wow, let's not let outright falsehoods pass uncommented.

Harley-Davidson worldwide sales were down about 14% last year.  Their sales drop was less than any of the "Big 4" Japanese manufacturers.  Their profits were down as well, but they made money - something that can't be said for all four of the big four.

Second, Harley petitioned the U.S. government for relief from unfair trade practices of the Japanese in the early 1980's, not the 1970's.  Perhaps you are not old enough to have been buying new motorcycles and riding in 1975-1985, but I was, and I can tell you that when Yamaha was selling big-bore V-twin streebikes (the original XV920RH; a DUCATI wannabe, for one) for less than ONE HALF their original MSRP in the U.S., even when those original MSRP prices were OVER 50% less than the exchange-rate MSRP for the same bikes in other markets, it was pretty obvious what their intent was.

Harley-Davidson had just emerged as a privately held company from under the fairly brutal ownership of AMF (American Machine & Foundry), which ran Harley as a cash cow, extracting profits, and investing virtually ZIP in new product or production techniques.  The company was weak and vulnerable, but had the Evo twin on the drawing board and the styling and design genius of Willie G. Davidson, grandson of the founder of the company, on their side.  They were facing marketplace extinction at the hands of the Japanese big four who would have liked nothing better than to have no domestic competition at all in their largest export marketplace.  They were all actively subsidizing their own liter-plus products with profits from their smaller bikes.

The U.S. government granted Harley's petition, setting a 5-year sliding scale (reduced each year) tariff on imported bikes of 700cc and above.   Japanese (or any other) bikes produced in the U.S. were exempt.  Small scale importers like Ducati, Moto-Guzzi, and BMW who were nto engaged in unfair trade tactics of their own, weere also excluded.  The first year the tariff was 45% of manufacturer's cost (not MSRP); the second year 35%, then 25, 20, and finally 10%.  The Japanese built 699cc bikes to undercut the tariff, moved production of heavyweight motorcycles to the U.S. to avoid the tariff, Harley brought out the EVO engined Sportster and then big twin, recovered economically, and petitioned for an early end to the tariff BEFORE it expired on its own.

Sheesh.

All this Buell and Harley and DMG hate.  I've raced under Roger Edmondson's organizations (CCS/ASRA 1989-2004 and AMA Moto_ST last year) and I think he does a pretty damn good job of making racing affordable to the club racer, accessable to privateer pros, packagable and saleable to marketing and media organizations, and palatable and interesting to fans.

If you want to hear a Regional multi-time champion who spent the bulk of his career racing for Kawasaki, who has switched to Buells, talk to Rick Beggs of RnR Cycles about the differences in support for a grass roots level guy who spends his own money campaigning bikes at the top of the club level, trying to hang in there as an ASRA and AMA Pro.   The differences are astounding, and they are not in Kawasaki's favor.

There are, as always, two sides to every story.  This thread just seems to be one side ripping a new asshole for the other side without any consideration that nothing is ever that cut and dried or black and white.

[duccarlos]

Most of the riping is the fact that the rules apply to everyone except Buell.

[gm2]

There are, as always, two sides to every story.  This thread just seems to be one side ripping a new asshole for the other side without any consideration that nothing is ever that cut and dried or black and white.

except, one would hope, seeing as they are now the sanctioning body of AMA Pro Racing, regulations DMG puts in it's own rulebook.  what they did with the 1125RR was black and white completely against the spirit and the letter of their own racing program.  at the time.

how ironic that the bike itself lasted one event.  maybe their bullshit series will only last one season.

[superjohn]

except, one would hope, seeing as they are now the sanctioning body of AMA Pro Racing, regulations DMG puts in it's own rulebook.  what they did with the 1125RR was black and white completely against the spirit and the letter of their own racing program.  at the time.

how ironic that the bike itself lasted one event.  maybe their bullshit series will only last one season.

I would love to consider the other side, but as with NASCAR, they don't tell you. When asked pointed questions, they become evasive & belligerent (see the roadracingworld.com interview) or simply don't explain at all.

I just want to know how a bike from one manufacturer can be eligible to race in ALL the DMG classes, but other makes have restrictions. It's not based on a formula. It's not published in advance. It's not applicable to all makes, models & teams and it reeks of favoritism.

Other than that, I'll take your word for it that they're a bunch of good guys out to help club racing go pro.

[Grampa]

BISS Racing

Because
I
Say
So

[Nekkid Tim]

I would love to consider the other side, but as with NASCAR, they don't tell you. When asked pointed questions, they become evasive & belligerent (see the roadracingworld.com interview) or simply don't explain at all.

I just want to know how a bike from one manufacturer can be eligible to race in ALL the DMG classes, but other makes have restrictions. It's not based on a formula. It's not published in advance. It's not applicable to all makes, models & teams and it reeks of favoritism.

Other than that, I'll take your word for it that they're a bunch of good guys out to help club racing go pro.

Please, don't take my word for it.  I'm just providing a single dissenting (or alternative) viewpoint in a thread that seemed pretty monotonously one sided.  I'm sure there are club racers (as well as AMA pro racers) out there who would vigorously disagree with my viewpoint.  And that's okay; they are certainly entitled to their opinions.

As far as John Ulrich and RRW&MT is concerned, I don't have to read the magazine (though I do read it; I've subscribed for years) to know that he is going to be critical of the AMA and DMG and organized American roadracing in general.   I've met John and attended Team Hammer trackdays, and my personal opinion is that he is a combative, irritating, domineering, self-satisfied, arrogant, prick.  He also happens to be smart, energetic, driven, concerned for motorcycle roadracer's safety, and a pioneer in roadracing risk abatement.  I am a contributor to his air fence fund.   Nonetheless, I take what he has to say about the AMA and DMG with a grain of salt, knowing his background and history with both the AMA and Edmondson over the years.

As far as which classes Buell motorcycles in their various guises are eligible for, and which ones Japanese (or other) manufacturer's bikes can compete in, my sense has always been that at the factory level, those folks can sure enough take care of themselves, and if they can't get what they want by squealing to the media, arm twisiting in back rooms, or subtle (or not so subtle) financial threats, they can (and have, in the past) take a hike to express their displeasure.  When enough do it, the sanctionng body (no matter who it is) gets the messages and finds a compromise position.

In the meantime, Buell is not exactly dominating AMA racing, no one is talking about racing on oval circuits, the show is still quite exciting to watch (hell, I think little Chrissy Ulrich even finished in the top 10 at Toledo, and it wasn't too dangerous for him to hike up his skirts and race) so I am, quite frankly, mystified at all the angst.

[tufty]

It's always good to meet a fellow Ulrich admirer. 

[superjohn]

Please, don't take my word for it.  I'm just providing a single dissenting (or alternative) viewpoint in a thread that seemed pretty monotonously one sided.  I'm sure there are club racers (as well as AMA pro racers) out there who would vigorously disagree with my viewpoint.  And that's okay; they are certainly entitled to their opinions.

As far as John Ulrich and RRW&MT is concerned, I don't have to read the magazine (though I do read it; I've subscribed for years) to know that he is going to be critical of the AMA and DMG and organized American roadracing in general.   I've met John and attended Team Hammer trackdays, and my personal opinion is that he is a combative, irritating, domineering, self-satisfied, arrogant, prick.  He also happens to be smart, energetic, driven, concerned for motorcycle roadracer's safety, and a pioneer in roadracing risk abatement.  I am a contributor to his air fence fund.   Nonetheless, I take what he has to say about the AMA and DMG with a grain of salt, knowing his background and history with both the AMA and Edmondson over the years.

As far as which classes Buell motorcycles in their various guises are eligible for, and which ones Japanese (or other) manufacturer's bikes can compete in, my sense has always been that at the factory level, those folks can sure enough take care of themselves, and if they can't get what they want by squealing to the media, arm twisiting in back rooms, or subtle (or not so subtle) financial threats, they can (and have, in the past) take a hike to express their displeasure.  When enough do it, the sanctionng body (no matter who it is) gets the messages and finds a compromise position.

In the meantime, Buell is not exactly dominating AMA racing, no one is talking about racing on oval circuits, the show is still quite exciting to watch (hell, I think little Chrissy Ulrich even finished in the top 10 at Toledo, and it wasn't too dangerous for him to hike up his skirts and race) so I am, quite frankly, mystified at all the angst.

That is an extremely well formulated position and excellently written. You know this is the Internet, right? 

[Nekkid Tim]

That is an extremely well formulated position and excellently written. You know this is the Internet, right? 

DOH!  Sorry, my bad.  What could I *possibly* have been thinking?

[zooom]

DOH!  Sorry, my bad.  What could I *possibly* have been thinking?

it was a moment of clarity caught between rounds of Corona Light and fine Tequila that you just were running on instinct with and happened to type out in a very uninternet way....



yeah..that's it, that's the ticket!   

 

[duccarlos]

Back to our normal reply:

You suck

You're ignorant

You're ghey!