Anyone here Hypermil

[somegirl]

Though if they really cared they'd get a moto bicycle 

fixed

[Scottish]

Hyper-milers are using up my life. There is no commodity on Earth that I value as much as my time. It is the ultimate non-replenishable resource. If you don't value yours fine, stay in the right lane.  For me that's 30min a day I coulda spent with my daughter, I could care less if I gotta burn an extra $10 weekly in dinosaur remains.

[x136]

Hyper-milers are using up my life. There is no commodity on Earth that I value as much as my time. It is the ultimate non-replenishable resource. If you don't value yours fine, stay in the right lane.  For me that's 30min a day I coulda spent with my daughter, I could care less if I gotta burn an extra $10 weekly in dinosaur remains.

On the other hand, I've found that not being in as much of a hurry as I thought I was in is quite pleasant. It can be stressful trying to maintain a high speed on the interstate (mostly because people in California don't know how to drive, but in general as well), whereas maintaining a reasonable speed and staying out of the way of the bulging-forehead-vein-brigade makes things a lot easier. It really doesn't take that much longer, either.

[Popeye the Sailor]

Hyper-milers are using up my life. There is no commodity on Earth that I value as much as my time. It is the ultimate non-replenishable resource. If you don't value yours fine, stay in the right lane.  For me that's 30min a day I coulda spent with my daughter, I could care less if I gotta burn an extra $10 weekly in dinosaur remains.

Hurry home so you can waste time on the DMF?


Really?

[DY]

Hyper-milers are using up my life. There is no commodity on Earth that I value as much as my time. It is the ultimate non-replenishable resource. If you don't value yours fine, stay in the right lane.  For me that's 30min a day I coulda spent with my daughter, I could care less if I gotta burn an extra $10 weekly in dinosaur remains.

DMF = daughter

[Scottish]

It's a matter of choice. I don't commute for fun, I'm not there for a joy ride. Daughter's young, she still sleeps quite a bit. She helped Daddy work on the bike earlier. Look the point is if you wanna go the speed of slow that's fine, like so many other things here in the US it's about personal liberity. Don't infringe on my choices though, get out of the way, stay in the slow lane, and don't give me dirty looks when I squeeze between you and grandma in the old Ford. Because you two are having slow drags, you bet your granola ass I'm gonna squeeze through there the very second I can do so without leaving paint. And yeah I'm gonna do it with the petal mashed, the 4 barrel howling, and the dual exhaust roaring. Before you accuse me of be the rude one, remember I wouldn't have acted that way if you weren't being inconsiderate of others on the road first. There's a reason that Interstates have minimum speed limits posted. It's a hazard to other drivers when a car is going well below the flow of traffic speed. Another bug of mine is when I finally get around one of these Hyper-milers, only to get caught at the next light and they pull up looking all smug, you know what? I've timed these lights, given a certain speed of acceleration from any given light and a certain flow of traffic. I can get almost to work with very few lights. Don't sit there like "see we're at the same light anyway Mr. Speedy", because I wouldn't have been if you hadn't been in my way!  When I'm driving I try to think about others, "if I turn right in front of oncoming traffic, can I get out of the way before they get here or will they have to hit the brakes, because I'm to slow". If I can't get out of the way I wait until the traffic is past. If I'm cruising along and someone comes up going faster than me, I get over. It's not hard people, try to keep the flow of traffic as smooth as possible and we'll all save money and time!!!

[il d00d]

Yeah...your torque converter. You use the same energy at idle no matter what, however with no fuel applied, an automatic car will move forward. That's why you need to keep your foot on the brake. They are correct-they're suggesting you allow the car to start moving while at idle, thus making sure that as you accelerate, you do not have to break static friction.

Though if they really cared they'd get a moto  [moto]

Oh yeah, I get what they are saying - the amount of energy required to go from a dead stop to rolling is probably best illustrated by an 18 wheeler under load  - they luuurch and twist forward.  With an auto, you don't want to power-break from a stop, but at the same time, they seem to suggest that this is "free" energy, which it isn't.  It is probably the same amount of energy you would apply to the wheels on a car with a manual transmission to go from a dead stop.  You might even argue that brakes applied against the idle "momentum" is a huge waste of energy over time, since that power is transferred to driveshaft, etc. Now, I don't know the finer points of the mechanics of a slush box, but I would think that being in neutral would be preferable to having the brake applied if you are at a dead stop for a period of time.  If nothing else, you are saving the energy losses associated with transferring power from engine to wheels.  But the moral of the story here is to use any momentum to your advantage.

[Popeye the Sailor]

With an auto, you don't want to power-break from a stop, but at the same time, they seem to suggest that this is "free" energy, which it isn't.  It is probably the same amount of energy you would apply to the wheels on a car with a manual transmission to go from a dead stop. 

It's not free but it's kinetic energy that is not being used. It is NOT the same amount of energy you would use from a dead stop. Static friction is fairly sticky. Ever push a car? Hard to get it going, easy to keep it going. It's the same idea-letting the car start rolling, then you start pushing.

You might even argue that brakes applied against the idle "momentum" is a huge waste of energy over time, since that power is transferred to driveshaft, etc. Now, I don't know the finer points of the mechanics of a slush box, but I would think that being in neutral would be preferable to having the brake applied if you are at a dead stop for a period of time.  If nothing else, you are saving the energy losses associated with transferring power from engine to wheels.  But the moral of the story here is to use any momentum to your advantage.

Most automatics idle lower in gear than in neutral (at least, the older ones do). Putting it in neutral would burn more gas than sitting with the brake on.

[Popeye the Sailor]

Annnnd if you really want to save gas and not get shot at....just accelerate slow, leave plenty of room so one doesn't have to brake as often (and therefore reaccelerate), check the tires, tune up the motor, drive a good speed in the proper lane and get a life.


Speeding there really doesn't save you that much time. 60 Vs 80 saves you twenty minutes.....if you're going 60 miles. It saves you ten if it's thirty miles. 15...which is maybe average...a whopping 5 minutes. Catch a light, forget your keys, *anything* goes amiss, and the only thing you managed to do is abuse the car and risk a ticket. Just leave the dang house earlier-you're time isn't that valuable.


I don't speed to work....and if our product is late...it's a $4,000 charge.....

....per hour.....

[Manny]

OY! I want to see the end of that video. Not just to see the outcome (thanks for the spoiler), but to see the techniques and hear the chit-chat on the subject. Those shows carry alot of info in the banter...

I drove my old jeep up to see my gf for lunch today. About 70 miles each way. Instead of rolling down the windows (source of drag), I just took the doors off. And to account for the drag of having no doors, I removed the back window as well.  Not efficient, by any means, but awfully nice way to spend a long drive.  Sorry sad gas-guzzler that it is, it only used half a tank. But with a top speed of 55, I spent all the gas money I would have saved on coffee to keep my brain occupied. 

[/random threadjack]

[DY]

Okay, i'll clarify my idea of "hypermilling"

1.  I dont drive at granny speeds in the highway, let alone in the fast lane.  I once calculated 5 more MPG by going 60mph(in the slow lane mind you) but its just not worth the time/cost benefit to me... 70mph is acceptable.

2.  I do leave the car in Neutral gear with parking brake applied whenever i'm at a stop.  If that stop is going to be for an extended amount of time (i.e., a minute) then i'll shut off the engine.

3.  I try really hard not to brake on the freeway, and it annoys the hell out of me when the aforementioned granny keeps hitting the brakes for no apparent reason.  Sometimes my foot off the brake will cause me to slightly tailgate... my apologies.

4.  If I see a green light ahead when I exit the freeway(with long offramps) then I'll shift the car into neutral and prepare to coast to a stop because I know i'm not gonna make that green. 

5.  If i see that said light just turning green as I'm exiting, i'll keep my speed up cause worse case i'll make the yellow.  This also holds true for some of the lights around my neighborhood. 

If you're caught behind me while i'm coasting, then deal with it.. i'm not gonna keep my foot on the gas only to start braking when that light turns yellow and we're still 50 yards away. 

My point, Hypermilling doesn't necessarily mean you're holding up traffic.  Sure, like all things, some people take it to the extremes... but I enjoy my 27mpg on my 2.7L V6 and I hardly drive slow. 

[x136]

just accelerate slow, leave plenty of room so one doesn't have to brake as often (and therefore reaccelerate)

As an added benefit, avoiding such stop-and-go driving actually smooths out traffic. When you're not driving that way, the people behind you don't have to either.

[...]and get a life.

Always good advice.

Speeding there really doesn't save you that much time. 60 Vs 80 saves you twenty minutes.....if you're going 60 miles.

Even that is assuming you can maintain 80 the whole way. You'll invariably run into something that will slow you down. At 65, this is less likely, or at least less likely to slow you down by as much.

Just by not driving like a bat out of hell, I end up getting 22MPG out of a truck rated for 17. Still sucks, and I'm not paying for the gas, but it's nice to not be wasteful for no reason.

[il d00d]

It's not free but it's kinetic energy that is not being used. It is NOT the same amount of energy you would use from a dead stop. Static friction is fairly sticky. Ever push a car? Hard to get it going, easy to keep it going. It's the same idea-letting the car start rolling, then you start pushing.

Most automatics idle lower in gear than in neutral (at least, the older ones do). Putting it in neutral would burn more gas than sitting with the brake on.

Well, if it gets you moving, it is the energy that you would use from a dead stop.   I think that static friction is technically the force that would defeat the static condition of tire against ground (resulting in in tire spinning against ground - which for the record, I am 100% in favor of)
As for idle, we're talking relative engine speed, which is not the same as relative energy wasted. Imagine bench pressing a broom handle Vs maintaining the up position in a push up.   Wasting energy on pumping losses (going through the motions in idle) vs defeating the force of motion.

[Popeye the Sailor]

I think that static friction is technically the force that would defeat the static condition of tire against ground (resulting in in tire spinning against ground - which for the record, I am 100% in favor of)

I'm not sure where you're getting your information from.

Static friction:

fmax = μs n

The force of static friction increases up to a maximum value, after which the object "breaks loose" and begins to start moving.

Kinetic friction:

f = μkn



Keeping moving...through whatever method....is the ideal here.

As for your last sentence "As for idle, we're talking relative engine speed, which is not the same as relative energy wasted. Imagine bench pressing a broom handle Vs maintaining the up position in a push up.   Wasting energy on pumping losses (going through the motions in idle) vs defeating the force of motion."

I can't address that, as I have no idea what you're saying...

"relative engine speed"?  "relative energy wasted"?

Relative to what?

[il d00d]

Thanks for the drawing
Gut check: when you say breaking static friction, are you talking about the relationship between the tires and the ground or something else?   When starting from a stop, do the tires ever break loose ?

Relative to what?

Each other.  I was about five beers deep at the time, so let me rephrase.  Because the engine is moving slower (automatic, in gear, at rest because brakes are applied) does not mean it is using less energy than an engine moving faster in neutral.   When the car is in gear, the engine is under load whether it is producing forward motion or not - the engine is producing enough power to start from a stop, but may be stopped by the brakes.  When a car is in neutral, the engine is making enough power to move itself.
I think the point you are trying to make is the automatic leverages the energy wasted by being in neutral, idling.  But the car is not idling.  It is in gear, continually producing enough power to get the car rolling.  Also, all things being equal, the energy required to produce forward motion is the same whether the car is equipped with a manual or automatic transmission. 

Now, my argument is predicated on the assumption that when the car is in idle the engine uses/gets less juice - I have absolutely no way of proving that (easily anyways), but it makes sense that it would.   And, well, for the record, I did say "one could argue", which is what I am doing here.  Anyways, good chatting with you..