What to do about my gf's 696 that refuses to work, and the dealer can't fix?

[needtorque]

If they are talking about the fuel pressure reg, and the throttle bodies I think they are on the wrong track.  These would really affect both cylinders.  Unless one throttle body was bad but really there is not much to them.  The injector is really more vital and I think you are closer thinking about the injectors or the coil than they are.  (which is quite sad for their sake)

[stopintime]

I haven't paid that close attention, but wasn't there some recalls due to reversed wiring on 696s. Don't know which wires was reversed. Do you know if this was an issue and if it was fixed earlier?

Here's the thread discussing it http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=10113.0

[knightrider]

if they have deemed the bike unfixable, i would push for a replacement, they can deal with fixing the bike on their or DNA's time.  if nothing else a loaner bike doesnt seem like too much to ask.

[Howie]

If you can get them to write "unfixeable" on the repair order that could help you negotiate with DNA.  I know of one superbike that a dealer couldn't fix.  DNA sent the bike to a different dealer.  It got fixed.

If they are talking about the fuel pressure reg, and the throttle bodies I think they are on the wrong track.  These would really affect both cylinders.  Unless one throttle body was bad but really there is not much to them.  The injector is really more vital and I think you are closer thinking about the injectors or the coil than they are.  (which is quite sad for their sake)

needtorque is correct, they don't have a clue.  These parts are being replaced without being checked.  Fuel pressure can be checked, as can an O_{2 sensor}. and, as needtorque said, fuel pressure affects both cylinders.  They should be looking for a malfunction that would cause an O₂ sensor to run out of parameter, setting a code.  I would suspect a bad fuel injector or a vacuum leak.

[krista]

Get your gf to call in to DNA and ask for guidance. The dealer is the number one influencer of things happening for customers when it comes to "Ducati will help you". And maybe try calling around other dealers? I know that if you call Ducati Seattle and ask for Dave Roosevelt, he will explain the steps he would take to help a customer of his with the same problems.

There has been a bit of DNA bashing in the past (including from me about 8 years ago), and before anyone thinks they're the bad guys, please read on:

I have the highest respect for Dave R at Ducati Seattle. He single handedly changed my feelings about Ducati North America. I personally know some of the folks working at DNA -- I can't say that I'd want some of their jobs. They are passionate enthusiasts like many of us here, only they are in the role of being liaison between US customers and Ducati Italy. They are not always empowered to solve situations and frequently have to advocate for approval from Italy. Most work very long hours for passable pay.


Best of luck -- and please keep us all updated with your progress. It's my hope that this story has a happy ending (and soon)
Chris

[needtorque]

Worst part is the injector/coil would be so easy to diagnose with no special tools.  Just switch the injectors to the opp cylinders and if the prob follows then there it is if not do the same with the coils.  In fifteen minutes you have the answer.  Vacuum is really not that bad either.  Get a spray can of ether (or throttle body cleaner)  and spray around all vacuum lines and connections.  If you get a change in idle then you have a leak somewhere there.

[Bladecutter]

The service manager said that they had checked for a vacuum leak, but there wasn't one found.

So my train of thought is if its FI related, its most likely the injector(s), and if its ignition related, its either the coils, the wires, or the pick up sensor.

So much of the bike has already been eliminated as the cause:

Air temp sensor
MAP sensor
Wiring harness
ECU
O2 Sensors
Throttle Bodies and TPS

Really, what's left?

Pick up sensor
Fuel Injectors
Coils and Wires
Dash

BC.

[needtorque]

The service manager said that they had checked for a vacuum leak, but there wasn't one found.

So my train of thought is if its FI related, its most likely the injector(s), and if its ignition related, its either the coils, the wires, or the pick up sensor.

So much of the bike has already been eliminated as the cause:

Air temp sensor
MAP sensor
Wiring harness
ECU
O2 Sensors
Throttle Bodies and TPS

Really, what's left?

Pick up sensor
Fuel Injectors
Coils and Wires
Dash

BC.

My biggest issue here is that it seems as though the dealer has not even determined if the bike is losing fuel or spark at the affected cylinder.  The is the first thing that I try to identify when diagnosing a problem like this because it makes the job that much easier and it is fairly easy to do.

[corey]

Not sure what the location of the bike is... but in my book... LEMON.
Of all the states the cover motorcycles in their lemon laws (yes, some do NOT... ask your governor why) your bike seems like it can be deemed a lemon in ALL of them.

http://www.ohiolemonlaw.com/state-motorcycle-lemon-law.html
These aren't just ohio laws... it's every state listed here

I think it's time to get some legal council involved on the lemon law prospect... You're girlfriend should be getting a new bike.

[Major Slow]

Have you tried contacting the BBB? Many business do respond to a BBB inquiry. Most places have an online form that is quick and easy to fill out.

[mstevens]

Is there really only one dealer you can get to?

In my line of work (medicine), once someone has worked on something for long enough without getting somewhere, it's time for a second opinion.

[Bladecutter]

Just updating this old thread, since it doesn't appear that I ever put in the final answer on what fixed the bike, nor can I find a thread where I did. Hopefully this will help someone in the future who buys a 696 and gets the LAMB Error.

So after everything's said and done, my dealer replaced just about every component on the bike in an effort to resolve the issue. The parts were never actually tested to see which one was out of spec at the end, but the issue was resolved in September '09.

Off the top of my head, here's all the parts that were replaced on the bike:

O2 sensors
Air Temp Sensor
Entire Wiring Harness
MAP Sensor
Throttle Bodies
Fuel Injectors
Coils
Spark plugs

They had even swapped out the ecu and dash from another bike at one point in order to see if those were the culprits.

Many hours of work was performed by the shop to get the bike running, and many thousands of dollars was spent by Ducati to change out every single part that has something to do with the FI system. Plus, we got them to extend the warranty for another 6 months.

Oh, and we also got the frame completely powder coated for free after they handed the bike back with some nasty gouges in it back in late September. That wasn't pleasant, either.

So now we are waiting on spring to arrive, so that she can actually put some miles on the bike this year, unlike last year.
The shop put more miles on it than she did all of last year.

I also learned from the shop a couple months back that now there is supposedly an ECU reflash for bikes that exhibit this type of error message behavior. Hopefully this info will help new people having trouble with their bikes get the issues resolved faster than it took for us to get it taken care of.

BC.

[He Man]

would of been easier if you just got a new bike!

glad you got it fixe though.

[wingnut]

Great to hear you got it resolved.

My advice to anyone who encouters this in the future is to f-the dealer and contact DNA yourself.  I had problems with my 1098 never running right and got tired of taking it to dealers who couldn't make it right.  Finally, I contacted DNA myself.  I'm not sure if I called or emailed then but DNA contacted me and told me to schedule maintenance with the dealer of my choice and get back with DNA letting them know when and where.  To make a long story short, the DNA rep basically held the dealers hand and they ended up performing over $4k in work...of which I paid $0.00.  It completely restored my faith in Ducati when I swore I'd never own another one.  However, I have absolutely no faith in their dealers which is how I found my way to this site.  

Oh, and after 2 years of struggling with the 1098 and them finally getting it running right...I traded it in for my 1100