What to do about my gf's 696 that refuses to work, and the dealer can't fix?

[Bladecutter]

Hey everyone,

I'm finally at my whits end trying to help my gf get her 696 back from the dealer in perfectly running condition from the dealer.

Extremely long story short:

Took 696 to dealer in May in order to get a slight oil leak in the left engine cover repaired.
They removed cover, cleaned off old sealant, applied new sealant, and all was good with the leak.

At the same time, there was the wiring harness recall which they performed by relocating the way the rear O2 sensor wire is run, and tied down. This was the beginning of the troubles.

As soon as we picked up the bike, when we started heading home, about 5 miles down the highway, the CEL came on.
We stopped, looked at the code, and the dash said that it was the Lambda Sensor.
We zipped back to the shop, they cleared the code, and gave us the bike back, but again, once we started heading home, CEL came back on, and the Lambda Sensor was still the result.

Dealer said that the Lambda sensors needed to be replaced, and placed an order with Ducati, and told us to keep the bike, and ride it, as it should be fine to do so.

A couple days later, the dealer called us back, and said that Ducati rejected their request for 2 new O2 sensors, and that they wanted to have the bike brought back into the shop for actual diagnosis time. Their opinion is that both O2 sensors shouldn't go bad at the same time unless something else is causing the issue. That's fine by me. I bring them the bike the next day, and I noticed the high air temp reading after installing the oil cooler kit on the bike.

I give them the bike, they notice the air temp issue also, and decide to order the air temp sensor.
A week goes by, and they get the part in, install it, test ride the bike, and they declare it all good.
We come, pick up the bike with my car and trailer because it was raining, and don't get to ride the bike for a couple days.
When we do, as soon as we leave the house, within 3 miles, CEL is on once again, same Lambda Sensor message.

Again, I bring bike back to dealer and drop it off.
They are always able to duplicate the CEL coming on.

They start making adjustments to the throttle body settings, and CO settings.
They state issue is resolved. We come get bike, ride it 5 miles down the highway, and CEL is back on again, same Lambda sensor message.

Bring back to dealer.
More tests, more more major CO adjustments, cam belts checked for proper tension (1 was a bit loose), and declare everything fine.
We come get the bike, this time are able to get 40 miles down the highway without any CEL, but as soon as we got off the highway and stopped at a red light, bigger problems started. Now the bike is clearly only running on 1 cylinder. When you try to take off from a start, you have to rev engine above 3200 rpms to get the second cylinder to fire up, otherwise the bike stalls. A couple more miles down the road, at the next light, again with the misfiring at idle, and only 1 cylinder running, and now the CEL is back on again.

I am getting annoyed and asked them if they have tried swapping the O2 sensors position, and seeing if the issues follow the sensor, or if it stays with the cylinder. They try that, take it for a test ride, and no improvement. Issue still with the same cylinder, and still running like crap.

They then go into full diagnosis mode.
Compression and leakdown tests.
VR tests.
CO testing.
Checked the valve clearances, and checked to see if the valve guides were bad on the motor.
All checks out perfect.

So they decided to order a new wiring harness, which they got in on Thursday last week (8/6/09), installed on Friday, and then called my gf on Saturday in order to inform us that the new wiring harness has had no change on the bike's behavior.
The Service manager told her that he is not capable of repairing the bike, and says that she should call Ducati NA and work something out, preferably getting a new bike.

Now gf is pissed off. This has been an ongoing issue since May, when the bike had under 1800 miles on it, and has been unrideable for the past 3 months, in the shop solid now for over a month, has just over 2200 miles, and is a $10k paper weight, with a dealer that says it is unfixable.

I can't go riding with my gf, because she doesn't have a bike that she bought new just over a year ago, and has put nearly no mileage on it. She is being torn apart from this whole deal, as she somehow thinks its her fault that the bike is having all these issues, but the bike didn't do any of this until the wiring recall was performed.

The dealer has all but given up, saying that we should talk to Ducati on our own, and try and convince them to give us a new bike (hah hah hah, like they will do that without a HUGE fight).

I don't know what to do anymore.
I want to make my gf happy, and that would take would be for her bike to be fixed.
The dealer has all but given up, and has their hands tied by Ducati, having to wait for Ducati to provide instructions on tests to perform, and ship them replacement parts from Italy, which usually take a week to receive.

Oh yeah, Italy is now on vacation.
No more parts until sometime in September.
Wonderful.

So where should we go with this now?
Its been over 3 months now without a bike for my gf.

Part of me wants them to continue trying to diagnose and repair the problem.
If it were me, I would test the ignition coils for both cylinders to see if they are in spec, and to swap the fuel injectors between the cylinders, to see if the problem follows the injector to the other cylinder.

If the coils and injectors come back as not the issue, then it would clearly either have to be the ECU, or the computer in the Dash, which would then require waiting for Italy to send out replacement units. Part of me says they should just rip the ecu, dash, and ignition lock from one of their showroom bikes waiting for an owner to see if the problem still happens, or if it vanishes, pointing at those current parts as being the cause. We know that won't ever happen, however.

Please give me ideas.
I wouldn't mind having a happy gf once again.

BC.

[Slide Panda]

Man... sorry for your troubles.

I'd be wondering if they somehow damaged the wiring harness during this whole process - even right off the bat. 02 sensors are simple pieces of kit.  They don't got bad too often, and it'd be pretty freaky for 2 to go out at one time... But if you've got a short or on/off fault in your wiring.. well that'd make for all sorts of problems.

You should contact DNA - and perhaps the BBB

Given time/money any bike is fixable.  THough they might not be capable (different discussion) - either way they aught to be able to fix it, but they are unwilling to try hard since this work (IMO) should all be on their dime.   

[Bones]

I'd be afraid to take it to another dealer at this point (not that you might have much of a choice, dunno how many are in your area).

first thing I would do is get ALL the dealer paperwork in order and if you can, a letter from the dealer to document that they can no longer service the bike due to inability to properly diagnose the problem.

Not sure where you are located, but I would start with your state/local DA's office and ask them about your rights under the lemon law. Lemon law might very easily apply here since the bike has been repeatedly serviced for the same issue and never fixed. They may send you to the California attorney general's office b/c that's where DNA is, but I dunno.

Give DNA a call and tell them what's going on, if they start pushing back, tell them you have already had a preliminary conversation with the AG's office and that you would like to keep this civil and not include state regulatory agencies. IF it goes that way, make sure there is NOTHING on the bike that isn't supposed ot be there and may void the warranty.

good luck.

[stopintime]

I haven't paid that close attention, but wasn't there some recalls due to reversed wiring on 696s. Don't know which wires was reversed. Do you know if this was an issue and if it was fixed earlier?

[caperix]

That sucks that the dealer wants you to contact DNA.  I would think that should be something handled on there end sence if it does come to a buy back situation they are going to need to talk to the dealer anyways.  It may be time for another dealer if available, at the same time send a letter to DNA about the problems & contact the BBB.
The problem started after they did a repair to the bike, if it was the O2 sensor wire relocation recall then the problem is even in the same area of the bike.  The wires to the sensor may have already been damaged and pulling on them to rerout could have brocken them.  Did they tell you what the exact fault code pulled from the bike was?  Knowing if the fault was for the sensor reading out of range or a sensor heater failure would help another shop.  Sence the bike started idling poorly after the shop said they did major CO adjustments, it is possible that they got the adjustments wrong.  I had this happen to me the first time I got my monster serviced, it would not idle cold until I adjusted the air bleeds myself.
The dealer seams to be everybit responsible for the problems with the bike, and should handle them for you.  Hope things work out for you.

[Spencer]

.

You said that the display reads "CEL" when the error occurs

According to the shop manual the possible error codes are as follows:

 TPS         Throttle position sensor 
 PRESS      Pressure sensor
 T OIL       Oil temperature sensor
 T-AIR       Air temperature sensor
 BATT       Battery voltage LOW - HIGH
 LAMB       Lambda sensor and/or Lambda heater
 FUEL        Fuel reserve sensor
 COIL        Horizontal and/or vertical cylinder coil
 INJECT     Horizontal and/or vertical cylinder injector
 START     Starter contactor
 R INJ       Injection relay
 PKUP       Pickup sensor
 SPEED     Speed sensor (if present)
 IMMO      Immobilizer (Key missing or antenna disconnected or key not recognised)
 CAN        CAN line (Communication between ECU and instrument panel)
 LIGHT      Lights relay


No "CEL" ? 

.

[csp808]

cel = check engine light

[rockaduc]

Pretty crappy dealer if they told YOU to contact DNA, as stated above, they will prob have to buy the bike back from you.  +1 to checking your state's lemon laws, I bet this situation qualifies.

Good luck, keep us posted.

[Spencer]

cel = check engine light

OK, so what error code accompanies the check engine light, the 696 will not simply trip the light, it will recognize and display the cause of the fault if you scroll through and select "error" (only shows up after the light is tripped)  Hold the button down to select the error code and be patient, if there is more than one cause it will read each error in three second intervals.

[Norm]

Or, stick with carbs.

[Bladecutter]

The code each and every time was LAMB.
Unfortunately, it doesn't specify which one of the two that it is in the user facing dash readout.

CO doesn't have any lemon law protection for motorcycle purchases, either.

All their testing has been concentrating on the vertical cylinder, I do believe, but I only have a 50% chance of being correct on that fact.

Honestly, if it were my bike, I would want them to fix the damn thing, like they are supposed to, but it's my gf's bike, and she's been without a bike since May. I'm just doing everything I can to get results, and I'm not really getting the type of results I would prefer to have.

BC.

[Raux]

the rear lambda sensor on the 696 is supposed to be clipped to the bottom of the fuel cell. but i found that didnt stay and put stress on it when you moved the cell for battery work, etc. so i moved it along side the subframe where the tail light wiring runs. IF you do not do either one, the wire will fall on or awfully close to the vertical cylinder exhaust pipe.
-checking that wiring would be the first place i would check.

there is another wire that was an issue of a service bulletin i believe, that runs under the fuel cell across the vertical cylinder head and up to the ECU area. that wire on my bike got hot enough to leave a mark on the cyl. head. I did not trace that one to know where it came from.
-that is the second wire i would check.

I expect the first wire is bad either from the heat or when they moved it around the first time. it's a bit flimsy connection on top of the sensor.

[Bladecutter]

Just got back from the shop, and talking to the service manager for a good 45 minutes.

So a full list of the parts that have been swapped on the bike so far:

Air Temperature Sensor -new
O2 sensors -switched positions on bike
Spark Plugs -new
ECU -swapped from another bike temporarily
Wiring harness -new

Shop has done extensive testing on the overall condition of the engine, and it tests out fine.
Throttle bodies and TPS check out fine, and any minute adjustment on the metering screws makes an immediate effect on the balance and CO levels of the respective cylinders.

They had not actually performed an inspection of the valve guides like they had originally informed me of originally, but had conducted a camshaft rotation test to see if there was binding/sticking of the valves, as it appears that the 696 motor seems to have the opposite issue that the S2R1k motor seems to experience with its valve guides (too tight a clearance leading to seized valves in the guides as opposed to valve guides that are too sloppy, leading to too much blow-by and valve stem wear).

Right now the shop is waiting for a new set of tests to conduct, or parts to replace, and it sounds like the next step is either the fuel pressure regulator in the fuel pump, or the throttle bodies, even though they test out fine. I countered those two suggestions with an inspection of the ignition coils, and also suggested that maybe its a fuel injector related issue. My basis for that was the fact that the bike did not throw a CEL on the highway last time I rode it for 40 miles, and because of the fact that it was only running on 1 cylinder below 3200 rpms.

So we're still working on it, but I am going to have my gf contact DNA in order to see what they can do on their behalf.
The shop has done everything DNA has asked of them, but its time that DNA did something on its own accord in order to rectify the situation my gf has been suffering through for the past 3 months. Namely, the lack of a motorcycle to ride that she payed top dollar for.

BC.

[He Man]

I wouldnt hesistate to have them just give you a new bike. the man hours + parts add up. Look up your local Lemon laws. You should be able to get a new one and forget this ever happened.

[Major Slow]

You might find relief under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. I'm no lawyer but it might take one to fix this.