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Author Topic: ERC in Arizona  (Read 4649 times)
Michael
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« on: August 10, 2009, 12:27:59 PM »

I've never taken an ERC (Experienced Rider Course) and I definitely think it's something everyone should do. 

I was thinking of going with these guys -- http://www.motorcycletraining.com/ (Team Arizona).

$100 for 5.5 hours on Saturday. And they're in Gilbert, which is probably what made me want to go with them.

Has anyone had any experience with them?

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Dietrich
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« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2009, 02:15:14 PM »

HIGHLY recommended.  I've been riding since I could walk (maybe even before) and got my moto endorsement when I was about 17 or 18..  When waiting for my GT to make it across the ocean to AZ (put a deposit on it sight unseen) I went and took the Intermediate course with Team AZ.  Just to see if I had any bad habits, and also to help lower my insurance. Wink  It was great!  I was by far the most experienced one in the class as most of the other guys were there because they had failed the riding test trying to get their liscense.  I got a perfect score, so the instructor made me pick up cones while she told everyone else what they did wrong. Smiley  I did learn a lot though, and did discover some bad habits which I hope I've been able to correct.  It's my belief that you can never have too much instruction or practice when it comes to riding motos.
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rule62
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« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2009, 10:59:02 AM »

I've never taken a riding course or test to get my license.  I just talked the MVA representative in Florida into giving me a moto endorsement back in '98, and then just went and bought an FZR 600.  All of my "skills" have been born from OJT.  And when I fall off... I mean it!
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Dietrich
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« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2009, 11:39:34 AM »

Oh Ryan, you didn't try nearly hard enough when you fell off.....  cheeky
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Monster Dave
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« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2009, 11:50:30 AM »

Oh Ryan, you didn't try nearly hard enough when you fell off.....  cheeky

 laughingdp
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Dietrich
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« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2009, 12:16:18 PM »

Michael - I'm interested in your notes from taking the class this weekend....have fun!
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Michael
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« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2009, 01:43:24 PM »

Michael - I'm interested in your notes from taking the class this weekend....have fun!

So I just completed my ERC with TEAM Arizona -- http://www.motorcycletraining.com/

Fantastic!

I got lots of 1-on-1 instruction through each part of the course. And we not only went over technique, but we got to practice everything several times each step of the way.

 [moto]

Things I learned:

1) Look where you want to be.
- Most people know this, but most people don't do it correctly. Looking where you want to be means to look to your destination, not just ahead of your motorcycle. For example, a U-turn means you would look to the other end of the U immediately when you start the turn; not at the apex of the turn, which is what I normally did.

2) No breaking during a turn, but only use rear brake (not front at all) if you have to.
- This was interesting, especially because so many people don't use their back brake at all. First, you need to get to correct turning speed before you enter in a turn. But if you were to use your front brake after that then it would compress your suspension in the front, whereas the back brake would just slow you down. This is more of an issue at really slow and tight turns.

3) What happens when your back tire locks up and you start to skid? Let it skid.
- Don't take your foot off of the back brake if your back tire is skidding, especially if it is skidding out sideways. The reason is is a locked up back tire will simply follow the front and straighten itself out. However, if you suddenly release that tire it be as though you suddenly turned the handlebars and you'll topple over.

4) The left side of the lane is usually the best.
- Make that person behind you see you better by being right in front of him.

5) Slow down, and then punch the gas a little bit before you hit a bump.
- This lifts pressure off of your front tires and extends the suspension, but then you should lift your butt a little bit to not put too much pressure on the back. If you're a big guy like me, this is an interesting trick to master.

6) Turning a Monster tight at a slow speed is difficult
- The trick is to lean far way from the turn, increase the throttle and feather the clutch.

7) If you have to slam on your brakes in the middle of a turn, straighten first.
- This is really important because if you slam on your brakes while you're leaning, you'll run the risk of losing control and flying off of your bike. If something jumps out in front of you, straighten your bike before you touch the brake at all (even if you have to go off the road a little), and then stop.

Cool Leather is best
- "In studies of 'survivability' of various garment materials to a 50 MPH ride on asphalt, for example, denim lasted no more than FOUR FEET before wearing through. Kevlar, on the other hand, lasted EIGHTEEN FEET. But standard motorcycle quality (about three times heavier than fashion jacket material) lasted EIGHTY-SIX FEET. That's more than 20 times as effective as your jeans in protecting your hide."

9) Never lay down a bike
- If you're about to t-bone a garbage truck, ride your brakes until impact. With only 2 extra seconds on the bike, it would mean the difference between hitting the truck at 23 mph versus 45 mph.

10) Look at head -- way ahead
- If you're on the freeway you need at LEAST 2 seconds of space between you and the car in front of you, but you need to look down the road about 12 seconds to have enough time to plan for what's ahead.

In a recent study it was shown that in a 30-minute commute if a person followed the 2-second rule and slowed down to maintain that 2-second distance each time someone cut in front of them (instead of going around them or riding close behind), the total travel time was only increased by 1 minute and 30 seconds.

11) Never look down, never look where you don't want to go
- Especially in problem situation -- let's say you hit some gravel on a fast turn and your bike is wobbling, don't stare at the wall you're about to hit, instead look to where you want to go and don't slam on the brakes. Eyes always up, feet on the pegs, look where you want to be, and ride it out.

12) When you come to a stop, stay way behind the person in front of you.
- Keep it in first, keep your hands on the handlebars, and if someone behind you isn't able to stop in time you have room to move to the side of the car in front of you. And now that skidding semi truck is their problem and not yours.

There was a lot of other great stuff, especially the practice on the course, but that's all I care to write for now.

Let me know if you have any questions.

 [moto]
« Last Edit: August 15, 2009, 01:47:06 PM by Michael » Logged
Dietrich
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« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2009, 04:54:44 PM »

Cool Michael..thanks for writing that up.  I have some controversial/lifetime of riding comments to make...but am pressed for time right now.  Will come back to it...
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Michael
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« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2009, 06:25:16 PM »

Cool Michael..thanks for writing that up.  I have some controversial/lifetime of riding comments to make...but am pressed for time right now.  Will come back to it...


I'd love to hear the other side of the argument if there is one.

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triangleforge
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« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2009, 07:43:43 AM »

Thanks for taking the time to write that up, Michael -- sounds like a really worthwhile day on the bike.
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pennyrobber
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« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2009, 10:12:53 AM »

Cool Michael..thanks for writing that up.  I have some controversial/lifetime of riding comments to make...but am pressed for time right now.  Will come back to it...


+1. I have problems with a few of the things listed. Most of the stuff is pretty standard and pretty much the same stuff from the beginer rider corse. Not a bad thing, probably a good refresher. I have a problem for sure with the notion of the back brake while in a turn. Smooth trail braking doesn't upset the front end and I would say telling people to use the rear brake while already in a turn is bad advice. I also have issue with the notion that you should ride out a rear wheel skid. If you are crossed up, then sure, but while the wheel is sliding you dont have control, if the bike is fairly strait then getting off the rear brake wheel get the rear tire rolling again and you will have better control. And I have always felt that these classes need to be tailored better for the kind of bike people ride. On a sporting motorcycle, the rear brake is really not that useful. I see newer riders over using the thing all the time and doing things like locking the rear wheel and also using the rear brake in a turn to "speed check" which is just flat improper technique.
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Michael
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« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2009, 11:03:53 AM »

I have a problem for sure with the notion of the back brake while in a turn. Smooth trail braking doesn't upset the front end and I would say telling people to use the rear brake while already in a turn is bad advice.

I also have issue with the notion that you should ride out a rear wheel skid. If you are crossed up, then sure, but while the wheel is sliding you dont have control, if the bike is fairly strait then getting off the rear brake wheel get the rear tire rolling again and you will have better control.

It was the tight, low-speed turn drills that I was told not to use my front brake and to use only my rear brake if I had to.

And it might be because I was having such a hard time with the slow turns. They were trying to get me not to use the clutch to control my speed. ... I don't know about your Monster, but mine doesn't stay under 15 mph smoothly without feathering the clutch. And I don't think they understood that ... or maybe they did and I just wasn't doing it right. Thoughts?

And I agree with you about the rear brake. Maybe I just didn't understand them correctly and they only meant when you are crossed up, but I even raised my hand and asked them to clarify. To me it seems that if a back tire locks up, then it is a lot more likely to start sliding around.

Anyway, it's interesting to hear different sides of an issue.

I always wonder about one person's point of view. I think the guys that taught my class absolutely knew what they were doing, but one of them was a tiny guy -- I probably weight more than twice what he does -- and that's got to play a factor in how he would ride versus how I would ride. Let alone how unique each motorycycle is.
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Dietrich
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« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2009, 11:19:29 AM »

On a sporting motorcycle, the rear brake is really not that useful. I see newer riders over using the thing all the time and doing things like locking the rear wheel and also using the rear brake in a turn to "speed check" which is just flat improper technique.

Are you calling me out here Charles? I had to use the back brake!! I was going agricultural!!!  And which brake was I supposed to use once in the gravel, huh?  Shocked    Grin

I still want to go through my comments...but had similar thoughts about braking.  Although, I do use my rear a lot more than some for slight line adjustments in spirited riding/turns or just using both brakes to smoothly stop in town.  Also to make loud squealling sounds in traffic. Smiley

Oh - And I agree with Michael.  The best way to modulate very slow speed maneuvers on a Ducati is to just keep the throttle at a reasonable position and feather the clutch.  Otherwise things will be way to herky jerky.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 11:21:05 AM by Dietrich » Logged

pennyrobber
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« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2009, 11:20:57 AM »

You are absolutely right about the tight slow speed turns. Monster's turning radius is pretty huge and you really do need to do a little clutch feathering or rear brake dragging. I don't think I could pass the old figure 8 inside the box test on the monster.
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SheMonster
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« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2009, 04:28:06 PM »

You are absolutely right about the tight slow speed turns. Monster's turning radius is pretty huge and you really do need to do a little clutch feathering or rear brake dragging. I don't think I could pass the old figure 8 inside the box test on the monster.

I did Wink
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