Ducati cuts production

[DrDesmo]

You guys also have to consider the US to Euro exchange rate. The dollar sucks right now. You can't expect Ducati not to raise our prices accordingly.

Not necessarily true - one US dollar buys .7 Euros right now, vs .68 Euros 12 months ago.  It's down from a high a few months ago though (.80)

There are, of course, larger macroeconomic factors at play here 

Cheers,
Adam

[Hi_Fi_Guy]

Porsche is in the pooh because of a botched attempt to take over VW and a high-flying CEO

This is from LeftLane News
As for Ducati they definitely need 1 or 2 more models in the sub $10k price range

Agreed.  The Boxster did save Porsche and they were the most profitable car manufacturer until they lost sight of that fact and attempted a buyout of VW which backfired and now VW will absorb Porsche. Ah, irony.  Now VW will push Porsche prices higher still so AUDI can become equal priced to BMW & MB and Porsche will lose market share just as Ducati have.

My S2R was $7500 new and purchased purely as a plaything alongside my tour ready and dirt ready BMWs.  Ducati have priced themselves high enough that many shopping for a 2nd, 3rd, or simply a "fun bike" will look elsewhere. 

It isn't all about brand or performance either URAL prices have increased to the point that the only people buying them are people who actually want to ride & service them.  About 1/3 of their previous demogragraphic that included weekenders and shock/horror people who purchased a URAL as garage jewelry 

[hunduc]

I like the way we grumble about the high US prices - try to buy a Ducati in Europe, you will be really shocked. (I live in the US, but I am on vacation now in my home country and I checked out the prices... Crazy...) 

[Mad Duc]

I agree with Ducati needing some lower level entry bikes. A 250 SBK would be a great thing. Priced around $5k. Usable as a daily driver and still sporting enough to hit the track. I know I would buy one. And as Lotus does, make a track series around it. Make it pretty much a "stock" class so it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to do it. How many of us would do it? I would! One East coast and one West coast series, the best X of each series goes to Indy for a club race before the MotoGP race.

And I agree - modern bikes are over powered. Here in the US we can afford them and can make use of them to a certain point. Other places around the world a 250 -IS- a big bike. Ducati has placed too much emphasis on the US market and 250's don't get a lot of respect, hence no engine smaller than the 696 now. If you look at India and China, two of the biggest growth markets, have tons of motorcycles due to the high cost of the fuel. While Ducati is a luxury brand ignoring those two markets would be a great mistake. A 250 Monster at a decent price might do well there. They used to make a 400 Monster.

Without knowing more about Ducati's global business it's hard to tell what strategy would work.

[swampduc]

The problem for Ducati and Porsche is not that they are over priced.  Supply and demand will correct the pricing problem.  The problem is that the overall market is just not spending.  Toyota and Honda have the same problem, too.  The rest of the world is in the same boat.

+1 well said.
The value of the 696, and any other hypothetical "entry level" product, is purely as a gateway product. The profit margin on those bikes is pretty darn low. I'd love to hear from Dave R or another new-Duc seller on this, but my local dealer will tell you he wishes he didn't have to carry the 848, as the margins just aren't there.
Duc could make a small displacement Hyper, but it wouldn't justify itself with high profits - it might even wind up as a loss leader. Duc just needs to ride this out, same as all the other manufacturers. And I agree with Randimus - they probably should have cut production earlier.

[NorDog]

I want Ducati to bring back the single cylinder scrambler.  Put me down for a 450.

[hillbillypolack]

The SF makes the S4Rs look like a bargain

Which it is.  The S4R or Rs is a great bike.  Even the S2R is an astounding, real world usable bike.  The 696 and 1100 continue that lineage, aesthetics being as subjective as they are. . .

But I agree with a few points above.  Ducati shouldn't be going downmarket, since it would cheapen the brand.  What they need to do while getting caught in this economic downturn is FOCUS.

Where does the Streetfighter fit in the Ducati lineup without taking away from the Monster line or the 1198/848 line?  It's not a bargain exactly.

The Desmosedici is an astounding piece of technology and engineering, and I bet they sold every one. . . . but in both of these cases, were internal resources used, budgets allocated at the expense of keeping Ducati on track as far as what it needs to be as a company?  Did the 696 for another example need "skins" because that detail seems a little JC Whitney than Ducati to me.

And God knows that a BMW GS competitor would only muddy the waters even further. . . as it's been rumored.

Until the economy (and personal credit lines return to normal), people won't be able to borrow for a Streetfighter, much less a 1198. 

Sport Classics
Multistrada
Monster 696/1100
848/1198
Hypermotard

That's a broad enough range, IMHO to keep focused.  Then again, my name isn't on the building either. .

[Bladecutter]

The value of the 696, and any other hypothetical "entry level" product, is purely as a gateway product.
The profit margin on those bikes is pretty darn low.

I'd love to hear from Dave R or another new-Duc seller on this, but my local dealer will tell you he wishes he didn't have to carry the 848, as the margins just aren't there.

Duc could make a small displacement Hyper, but it wouldn't justify itself with high profits - it might even wind up as a loss leader. Duc just needs to ride this out, same as all the other manufacturers. And I agree with Randimus - they probably should have cut production earlier.

I hate to point out the obvious, but there is a segment of riders out there who think that these "entry level" Ducati's are more than sufficient bikes for the long term. I've been riding for over 20 years, and as soon as I test rode the 848, I had to have it, and have owned it for the past year. I'm now convinced that this is the last motorcycle I will ever buy, unless it gets destroyed, and then I will buy another 848.

My gf bought a 696, and she loves it when she can steal it away from the repair shop after they tell her that her CEL has been "fixed" (again). She's done with looking for a better bike as the 696 has everything that she wants, except that her particular bike has an electrical gremlin that needs to be rectified.

Neither of us look at the bigger versions of our Ducati's, and think we are missing anything from the upscale models.

If your dealer hates the 696 and the 848 because they don't have high enough profit margins during the initial sale, then your dealers are not thinking long term about having their customers as long term owners of Ducati motorcycles, and probably shouldn't be in business selling new bikes.

They can make up their profit margin losses on service and parts, quite easily.
And if a Ducati dealer can't get the owners to buy make-pretty parts for their Ducati, then they shouldn't be selling Ducati's at all. Who here still has a bone stock Ducati? Anyone?

The real question that should be asked is how much does it cost Ducati to develop and produce an 848, and how much are they charging the dealers for the bike, and how much difference is there between those numbers, and the actual MSRP of the bike?

Then we can see how bad it is to be in the Premier bike business...

BC.

[vwboomer]

It would also help if they could shed their image of unreliable maintenance hogs, with over priced, unobtainable parts.

Yep. Cuz I'd throw the bike down the road before paying $2000 for a radiator 

[hillbillypolack]

I hate to point out the obvious, but there is a segment of riders out there who think that these "entry level" Ducati's are more than sufficient bikes for the long term. I've been riding for over 20 years, and as soon as I test rode the 848, I had to have it, and have owned it for the past year. I'm now convinced that this is the last motorcycle I will ever buy, unless it gets destroyed, and then I will buy another 848.

Point taken, though I'm not sure if an 848 is considered an "entry level" bike.  Entry to me comes into Buell Blast, Suzuki GS (though older), smaller displacement Ninjas.  Even a Suzuki SV650 or Kawasaki Versys is a bigger bike than entry level. 

[bluemoco]

<snip>
And God knows that a BMW GS competitor would only muddy the waters even further. . . as it's been rumored.

Um, I think that ship is preparing to sail.  Like Porsche, Ducati is planning to boost sales volumes by selling a heavily street-biased "dual-sport" Multi.  (I doubt they'll ever use the term "dual sport" to describe the bike.)  And everyone knows that Porsche Cayenne owners and BMW GS riders seldom take their vehicles off-road.  (gravel doesn't count)



Despite their high price tags, bikes like the forthcoming 1198R are not going to generate enough sales volume to support development of the next generations of Supersport models.  Sales volumes (and revenue) grow by offering bikes that are accessible to a wider range of riders.  Even though we tend to glorify the 848 and 1198 rockets, there are many more riders in the world who prefer a bike that is actually comfortable yet still offers ample performance.  Hence the popularity of the Monster...

[RED]

Please note: I probably don't know what I'm talking about!

I highly disagree with this statement...of that's coming from someone who DOESN'T know what the heck is going on. 

+1 with Michael, devalueing a model costs a company much more capitol than it would gain in marketshare. It's easy to produce shit. If you want that...Hyosung...etc. Give rise to an inferior product or way of  producing quality will benefit no one. Especially the ones who die trying to ride it like the old Ducati they owned before.

If you want cheap, go take your chances on another bike. But DO NOT MESS WITH DUCATI !!

They are the best (commercially available) bike made. Period. I don't mind paying for the best because the dividend return rate in peace of mind is priceless.

[Triple J]

Even though we tend to glorify the 848 and 1198 rockets, there are many more riders in the world who prefer a bike that is actually comfortable yet still offers ample performance.  Hence the popularity of the Monster...

...and potential popularity of the new "Strada Aperta", or whatever it will be called. Slightly milder SBK motor, comfy seating position, great handling, decent wind protection, and luggage ability.

Could be a very popular bike if it isn't fugly...and way too expensive. 

As far as needing entry level bikes, Look at H-D. How many sub-10K bikes do they have? How many over $20K ones? they were doing very well until the recent economic problem (which has affected all moto manuf.).

[Goat_Herder]

As far as needing entry level bikes, Look at H-D. How many sub-10K bikes do they have? How many over $20K ones? they were doing very well until the recent economic problem (which has affected all moto manuf.).

H-D is in a different fight for survival.  Other than the recent economic downturn, H-D is facing its target segment literally dying off.  Their struggle to find newer and younger customers will continue long after the economy recovers.  Currently, they only have one line targeting the younger crowd - the Sportster.  Even in that line, IMO, only a few models (ie Iron 883) would be appealling to a 20 something year old.  ANd I am not convinced that the purchase of Buell and MV Agusta is, or will ever, pay dividence...

[Mad Duc]

As far as needing entry level bikes, Look at H-D. How many sub-10K bikes do they have? How many over $20K ones? they were doing very well until the recent economic problem (which has affected all moto manuf.).

Yes, but the Cruiser market is 50% of the total motorcycle market. It's easier to sell into that market especially with the loyalty & brand name they have. Sportbikes have a much smaller market. If Ducati had a smaller more affordable bike they could use the increase in sales to offset some fixed costs and increase utilization of plant & equipment. Now, if utilization isn't a problem for Ducati then it wouldn't make sense. I'm assuming that Ducati could produce more bikes with little need for expansion and I think that's a fair assumption. I high quality low displacement could help with the brand image (think of what the Ninja 250 does for Kawi), open sales to lesser markets and increase revenues.