Anyone "Not" a fan of the Single Side Swingarm?

[ducrider45]

I really like SSS, but they are heavier and flexier than a DSS.

+1

[NAKID]

"Flexier" how? I keep hearing this but no one has shown how or why. Anyone?

[DucHead]

Going back to the original question...

I always hated the look of the SSS.

I have serious ocd issues with symmetry.

Then I got a bike with one.

First time I changed the rear tire...

make the beast with two backs symmetry.   

 

I think the SSS looks great, especially when its painted to match the frame:


but I'm biased.

That said, the best looking DSS Ducati has made is the swingarm on the Sportclassics...kinda like the one Stew fabbed up.

[ducrider45]

"Flexier" how? I keep hearing this but no one has shown how or why. Anyone?

My terms may be a bit off here but.......
I have personal knowledge of this  . As you roll on the throttle the chain pulls on the sprocket applying more force to one side of the hub. There is enough flex or play in the swing arm that a transverse rotational force is in action at the rear hub It creates yaw and roll of the rear wheel. On the DSS there are 4 anchor points for this force that help to minimize its effects . You have the two connection points of the pivot axle and the two connection points of the rear axle (Eliminating almost all "roll"). there is some rotational flex (Yaw), but it is minimized by this set up.
 With the SSS you effectively only have three anchor points for this force. The rear hub and the two pivot axle connection points. the rear wheel has much more yaw and roll to it.

[caperix]

The D16RR has DSS, other than that the 1098R has SSS.  I see your logic in that a DSS is probably stronger but you only need it if you are putting out 200+ HP in which a monster never will.

I don't think it is a "how much power it will handle" thing.  GP bikes switched to DSS because of the way they can be made to flex.  In racing they have been making chasis less stiff to allow more flex for a suspension effec when the bike is leaned over.  DSS has 4 pivot points so the tire will remain pointed strait.  SSSA has only 2 pivot ponts so the rear whell will turn when the arm moves.  Kevin Camron has mentoined this is his articles in the past, it is thought that this maybe the reson for ducati switching to a cabon fiber frame on the new D16 race bike.

[ducrider45]

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What he said

[kingbaby]

Ducati still to this day makes all its production frames (for mere mortals) out of steel tubing. If they did not want you to feel the bike working under you, they would have changed materials, or the overall construction of the bikes frame long ago.   There are many manufactures out there today that will sell you a no feed back "Dead" bike.

If all you want is a tight rear end... Weld your swingarm to be a ridged, or get yourself a 25 year old girlfriend.

[Norm]

Ducrider pretty much has it right on the flex issues, but another problem that people often overlook is the change in ride height and swingarm angle everytime you adjust the chain.
I used to do (rudimentary) flex tests with different swingarms by taping things close to tubes, but in a direction you didn't expect them to move and then look for, and measure the travel distance, to a rub mark.
The whole stiffness vs flex in chassis design isn't as cut and dried as some would have you believe. I do agree that aluminum is a "dead" material and always have loved the feel and design "adjustability" of steel.
Most of my riding/testing conclusions are that you want the swingarm and the head tube to be as stiff as possible in order to get better rider "feel". I do, however, have 1 SSS and 1 DSS. My son rides a SSS. They're just cool looking!!
For those who want to pursue subjects like these further, I highly recommend Tony Foale's book: Motorcycle Handling and Chassis Design.

[CairnsDuc]

+1 to Pompetta's comment, I have always loved the SSS on my S2R, but as soon as I painted it red to match the bike, everyone now comments on it, they all love it.

I must admit when I saw the SSS in pictures, I never liked it, but when I saw one at my local dealer for the first time, well, I liked it so much, I went and placed an order the next day for my S2R 800 

[vw151]

I think the SSS looks great, especially when its painted to match the frame:


but I'm biased.

That said, the best looking DSS Ducati has made is the swingarm on the Sportclassics...kinda like the one Stew fabbed up.

Agreed, the red painted swing arm looks sweet.  Very MH900 style. 

I have to be careful not to speak out of my ass but what I'm seeing here is actually that the problem with the SSS is that it's usually too stiff and offers no feedback compared to a DSS that can be made flexier but still remain straight under load. 

I have actually spoken to some guys at the ducati shop about this and the aluminum SSS on my S2R is actually very very stiff.  It has to be because it only connects on 1 side.  So not to say that the swing arm is not at a disadvantage compared to a DSS in terms of handling, just clearing up that it seems the problem is the opposite of what everyone is saying.  The SSS is too stiff.    Would you guys say this is correct?

Further.... I agree, the DSS on the sport classic is pretty.  I have always been a Paul Smart lover personally.  I think that bike is sexy.  Especially when taken to the limit and turned into a class specific race bike.  I've seen a few on the forums all decked out with super bike parts and built 1000DS motors.  Hotness!!!!

[ducrider45]

+1 to Pompetta's comment, I have always loved the SSS on my S2R, but as soon as I painted it red to match the bike, everyone now comments on it, they all love it.

I must admit when I saw the SSS in pictures, I never liked it, but when I saw one at my local dealer for the first time, well, I liked it so much, I went and placed an order the next day for my S2R 800 

I agree that it looks better when you paint it the same color as your frame.

[Randy@StradaFab]

    I think the reason Ducati uses steel in its frame is because it's cheap to manufacture. I'm bettin they didn't have a group of engineers spend hundreds of hours on frame design. They were probably more concerned with making it look good and safe. And the guys doing the welding are certainly no old Italian craftsmen churning out 1 frame every month. There's probably one welder thats really good, but nobody can get along with. One welder that isn't that great, but kisses the foreman's ass and gets away with murder. And one welder that's always getting his ass chewed for not making his quota.

[kingbaby]

    I think the reason Ducati uses steel in its frame is because it's cheap to manufacture. I'm bettin they didn't have a group of engineers spend hundreds of hours on frame design. They were probably more concerned with making it look good and safe. And the guys doing the welding are certainly no old Italian craftsmen churning out 1 frame every month. There's probably one welder thats really good, but nobody can get along with. One welder that isn't that great, but kisses the foreman's ass and gets away with murder. And one welder that's always getting his ass chewed for not making his quota.

I would pounce all over this... but based on your other posts... Naaaaaa.




And for the record (your guitarist reference),  Nuno Bettencourt & Brian May.