Arc Fabrication Titanium Framed Ducati

[ducatiz]

Depends on how its removed

[Betty]

I know this is off topic and apologise but I couldn't let this string of posts go without comment:

I mean, unless he sold his spleen to the Russian mafia...

You don't need a spleen to live...

Depends on how its removed

Picture this ... trip of a lifetime ... wife riding 696 through Tuscan Hills en-route to Ducati factory & museum ... involved in accident ... emergency surgery ... spleen removed in Bologna Hospital.

Slightly back on topic ... there is usually good money to be made in mining in Australia.

[Norm]

Doug's a good welder and has had a lot of different welding jobs in his life, and while I haven't spoken to him since the move, I suspect he has a good paying job WELDING for a mining company.
Making scratch built bikes with Ducati motors is still more of a 2nd job activity than a complete living.
Doug did it full time and..........
Mark at motocreations did it full time and he had to go back to his old job, although he still does some part time stuff.
I did it full time until I could no longer work (motorcycling caught up to me) but I always had a working wife to help with the bills. I hope my sons will continue but they are a bit horrified when they see the amount of work involved.
Hopefully Doug will find a way to fit motorcycles into a side job soon, he does nice work and truly love motorcycles.

[MotoCreations]

Mark at motocreations did it full time and he had to go back to his old job, although he still does some part time stuff.

[Norm] -- MotoCreations has been "full time" for myself for many years. (although I do have other business interests)  Normally I work 75-110hrs/week.  I was involved with the restoration project early last year (afterhours) for a few months. (not for financial reasons but because it was a cool project!)  As of four weeks ago, we now have two machinists, CAD designer and a carbonfiber guy working full-time on projects (as well as an upcoming part-time bookkeeper/shipping person) -- besides myself doing my double full-time shifts for the past year.


[General comment]

We used to build our DesmoDevil's (chassis/coachwork) full-time.  We'd still be building DesmoDevil's today due to demand (I still get requests every month) -- but I've built enough already!  Just the demand for our BoomTube exhausts and other Ducati aftermarket parts has been overwhelming and thus our focus in that direction for the past 18 months and the world of manufacturing/production items that fit existing Ducati's. Currently we are finishing new parts/exhausts/bodywork/electrical for the M1100/696 as well as more additional parts (this Winter) for the SF/HM and SportClassic.

We still build new chromoly frames for ourselves or good customers as part of a complete fully assembled/finished custom motorcycle package.  We no longer design/build (or will build) individual custom frames for folks to their design/specifications.  Mostly this is due to folks wanting something built as cheap as possible or believing they can get a custom built Ducati powered bike cheaper than a showroom new Ducati -- or wanting us to build something we have no interest in building.  There is no such thing as a "10hr to build frame with perfect alignment, custom geometry and all electrical/component bracketry included".  It isn't uncommon to get 400+hrs involved in building a new bike (ala our DesmoDevil) due to design, CAD/machining, fabrication, electrical, assembly and finish work -- plus add the cost of the Ducati parts, suspension, etc required and final engine tuning.  (note: my "Orange Kist" project will be @600+ hrs projected due to the more elaborate CAD/CAD work and the clay masters required for the carbonfiber bodywork and other items)

Is there a demand out there for someone to build standalone custom frames?  Yes.  But as a viable business model -- it's a difficult one doing one-off frames for customers on a regular basis.  The other obstacle is the supply of parts you need on the shelf inevitably as the customer isn't able to supply everything needed.  Plus you need to be an expert welder, have a shop with equipment, have an engineering background -- and truly must be passionate about building frames.

As for Doug?  Sad to hear what has happened since he left the confines of BCM.  If he is welding for his "day job" -- I'm sure the last thing one wants to do is come home and do even more welding / fabrication.  It wears you out eventually.

There are a LOT of folks/shops out there who can build a frame for a Ducati -- it isn't hard -- just labor intensive.  Very few have a Ducati specific chassis jig to build a frame though -- and even fewer who have an alignment jig to verify what they build.  I always thought that building the frame was the "fun part".  Inevitably it's the small electrical brackets, gussets, bodywork mounting points, etc -- that is where all the billable hours occur and aren't fun to build and nobody notices.

Take a look at www.DucCutters.com as there are many other options via others to buy existing frames or getting one built.  Main thing I tell people who want a frame or motorcycle built -- check references, visit the builder, make sure you and the builder communicate well (and on a regular basis), make sure you ship/supply the builder with every single part that is required to make sure it fits when done.  Spend at least 10% of your project fund doing this! (it will save you money later)

[MotoCreations]

Norm -- is that black Ducati (your icon deal) with the girl arched across it one of your Hurricane projects?  Was it ever featured when done? 

[hbliam]

[Norm] -- MotoCreations has been "full time" for myself for many years. (although I do have other business interests)  Normally I work 75-110hrs/week.  I was involved with the restoration project early last year (afterhours) for a few months. (not for financial reasons but because it was a cool project!)  As of four weeks ago, we now have two machinists, CAD designer and a carbonfiber guy working full-time on projects (as well as an upcoming part-time bookkeeper/shipping person) -- besides myself doing my double full-time shifts for the past year.

I think Norm got you mixed up with Flightcycles.

[Magnus]

I think Norm got you mixed up with Flightcycles.

That must be it...   I know Mark had a life before Motocreations, but once he started it, he hasn't looked back...

[Norm]

Sorry Mark, I know you still make a lot of the boomtubes, but I thought you had quit building complete bikes, frames, etc.. Last I heard, you had moved from Arizona to Seatle(?) and gone back to your old job.
And yes, the bike in my avitar(?) is one of ours - neat chick huh? [moto]

[REDUC]

Back in May, '06, I was looking at getting a S2R 1K, and wrote this to Doug:

Doug,
Sorry to bother you again.  I'm sure that you're a busy guy.  I've been tooling around your excellent website, and was wondering about a custom bike.  I am looking at getting a S2R 1000 in the near future and was thinking of keeping a riding position very near to stock and retaining the tank, seat, etc. and a single sided swingarm.  With a new Ratbike type frame and exhaust kit, and maybe a power commander to tune the fuel/air mixture, can you give me some idea of what I would be looking at as far as weight, power and price?  I realize that there may be too many variables involved, but I think this LoudBike would be pretty cool...

To which he replied:

Jason, yes pretty busy, but it is nice getting your emails. 
An SR1000? That is a really great bike. One could say it is the perfect Monster. Though the SR800 is a little zipper too.
 
Lets see, weight savings; A stock frame is about 30lbs, a Titanium frame for the single side swingarm suspension about 11.5lbs. About 1 lb more than the catilever style RatBike. Requires more structure to support the rocker link for the rear suspension.
 
The DS engine is a very nice engine. A well tuned exhaust can really wake it up. In stock trim, ie, no mods to the engine, we have gained as much as 90rwhp with careful fuel mapping using a PCIII, modified airbox, and a tuned exhaust. ( DynoJet is due to release a PCII, for the newer Ducati closed loop fuel injection. They are talking Sept 06 )
 
A Ti frame, built to accept all your OEM Monster componants: $5400. Includes MSO and full assembly.
A custom exhaust: 2-1 UnderTail for 2 valve motor $1450
                            2-2 UnderTail for 2 valve motor $1750
                            Either of which, built and installed on your bike.
Of course, as you mentioned, there are many options. But as a base line this hopefully can give you an idea of where you can go with a Custom. One nice aspect, if you prefer an UnderTail exhaust, is that a subframe can be built is such a way as to allow the seat and tail to remain visably in the stock arrangement, but give more latitude in how the appearence of the exhaust can be arrainged under the seat. More space under the seat really. The configuration of the stock subframe creates many restrictions.
 
Food for thought in any case.
 
Regards,
Doug

Kinda bummed I waited too long...especially since I went with an S4Rs instead!  How f*ckin' sweet would that be??!

[ducatiz]

A Ti frame, built to accept all your OEM Monster componants: $5400. Includes MSO and full assembly.

i always wondered how the replacement frame > VIN problem was dealt with -- a full MSO for the new bike?

that raises lots of issues for me -- because if its a new bike, then it has to "conform" (regardless if you had an '04 originally, the new bike would be a current year and have to conform to current-year NHTSA/EPA/DOT regs...) 

there was a guy in Cali, a custom shop, who built choppers and got in lots-o-trouble by the CARB and EPA folks..

[Randy@StradaFab]

  So how do all of these guys that build choppers with open exhaust and no turn signals get by? If you build a custom frame, what about the VIN on the headpiece?

[Norm]

You can get asigned a manufacturers VIN # permit(?) online but it's a self policing deal unless you get a random check and yes, most of the aftermarket VIN#'d bikes don't meet code. I've always issued an MSO with a serial# and never claimed any bike to be DOT compliant. No one has ever had a problem regeritering any of them in about 6-8 different states, meaning the state has accepted them but they don't meet federal standards.
I've spent hours on the phone with the head DOT guy (motorcycle enthusiest) and not being compliant isn't a problem as long as you don't claim to be. I think Mark used VIN numbers so I'm sure he can contribute to the subject.

[Randy@StradaFab]

  Thanks Norm....What does MSO stand for?

[Norm]

Manufacturers Statement of Origin
As long as we're trying to figure out the state of this (tiny) market and since I'm no longer active in it, I'll give you some history.
I started by making custom parts and then added fromes an complete bikes. My plan was to make about 8 complete bikes a year but custom bikes take an extraordinary amount of time and soon found I was over a year out on delivery. Since my name isn't Jesse James, this didn't prove to be an asset. I stopped selling parts or bare frames and settled into about 3-4 frames a year which kept me busy without having to hire employees, which I DID NOT want to do. Part of the problem with a small custom business is that it is pretty much a "feast' or "famine" affair - you either worry if you're ever going to sell another bike or you don't know how to make time to fill your orders without stretching people's patience (sorry to any of you who got caught in that latter category).
Anyway, I don't know how many bikes Mark or Doug ever made (and don't know if they would consider it a trade secret or not), but I made a total of 16 scratch built bikes. In addition, we redesigned and heavily modified 2-3.

[Travman]

And yes, the bike in my avitar(?) is one of ours - neat chick huh? [moto]

Norm, if you still have the picture can we please see a close up of that bike and the chick on it.