696 Engine modifications

[Raux]

suppose it would be feasible to put the 696 head on the 800. basically you would get the hp/tq of the new 796. but i also think the new Siemens computer does some more magic too. not sure of the valve sizes of the 800, but that may have something to do with it too.

[caperix]

The 696 heads have bigger valves and higher lift cams than the 800 heads.  The 800 has 43 mm intake and 38 mm exhaust valves with 10.8 mm of lift on the intake and 10.3 mm of lift on the exhaust.  The 696 has 44 mm intake and 38.5 mm exhaust valves with 11.2 mm of lift on the intake and 10.8 mm of lift on the exhaust.  Hopefuly those numbers are correct I have collected them form various sources.  Because the 696 uses a gasket between the cylinder and head it is likley that you would need to install the 696 cylinders along with the heads to put them on a 800.  I do not know if the bore spacing is the same on the 696 as it was on the old small case engines.  I have put some thought into doing this to my 620 to make a nice 750.

[Raux]

ok reviving this due to questions about internal changes.

The shop i'm working with says cracking the case to change the crank is expensive, not in labor, but parts. He says bearings, con rod bolts, seals, etc. all have to be changed.
for those of you with experience, what are the critical things i will need?

Also, for the .44mm difference in deck height I need i was thinking about (if this all works out) adding metal spacer to raise the head. question is should i put it between the case and the cylinder or the cylinder and the head?

this is a parts list for a rebuild i was recommended. is there more or less that i need for this (ignore the ergal cam parts )?
44440035A DOF DU PDU OIL FILTER DUCATI STD
2 73740241A DU PDU CAM BELT Z=70 696MR/09
1 96436603B DU PDU ERGAL ROLL.KIT 1000M-SS-
1 942470014 SEALANT DU CEM LIQUID GASKET
1 79120461A DU PDU GASKETS SET 696 MR/09
1 066049268 DU PDU SEAL,25X47X7 750M/98
1 93041231A DU PDU SEAL RING 18X30X6 LAYSHAFT
0 1 93040931A DU PDU SEAL RING 17X25X4 696MR/09
1 85110191A DU PDU WASHER D.22,5 MONSTER/04
1 88640351A DU PDU O-RING, inspection cap lh
1 85250051A WSB DU PDU WASHER, SIDE BIG 2001 on
1 22032083A WB DU PDU GASKET,DRAIN PLUG
1 88210031A DU PDU RING

[LowThudd]

Also, for the .44mm difference in deck height I need i was thinking about (if this all works out) adding metal spacer to raise the head. question is should i put it between the case and the cylinder or the cylinder and the head?

I would think between the case and the cylinders. Otherwise you would have two gaskets for the head instead of one. Twice the vulnerability to a high pressure leak.

[caperix]

The base gasket sees lower pressures so it would be the one I would recomend spacing.  I have heard of people stacking multiple gaskets on the 900's to change deck height, Im not sure if there are any cons to doing this though.  I have also seen cylinder head spacers for turbo kits in car applications, usually a small aluminum spacer squeezed between 2 head gaskets.

[Speeddog]

Definitely put the spacer between the cases and the cylinder.

Actually, the base gasket/shim listed in the parts catalogues says it's 0.4mm thick.
So, an additional base gasket on each cylinder should do the trick.

[Duck-Stew]

ok reviving this due to questions about internal changes.

The shop i'm working with says cracking the case to change the crank is expensive, not in labor, but parts. He says bearings, con rod bolts, seals, etc. all have to be changed.
for those of you with experience, what are the critical things i will need?

Also, for the .44mm difference in deck height I need i was thinking about (if this all works out) adding metal spacer to raise the head. question is should i put it between the case and the cylinder or the cylinder and the head?

this is a parts list for a rebuild i was recommended. is there more or less that i need for this (ignore the ergal cam parts )?
44440035A DOF DU PDU OIL FILTER DUCATI STD
2 73740241A DU PDU CAM BELT Z=70 696MR/09
1 96436603B DU PDU ERGAL ROLL.KIT 1000M-SS-
1 942470014 SEALANT DU CEM LIQUID GASKET
1 79120461A DU PDU GASKETS SET 696 MR/09
1 066049268 DU PDU SEAL,25X47X7 750M/98
1 93041231A DU PDU SEAL RING 18X30X6 LAYSHAFT
0 1 93040931A DU PDU SEAL RING 17X25X4 696MR/09
1 85110191A DU PDU WASHER D.22,5 MONSTER/04
1 88640351A DU PDU O-RING, inspection cap lh
1 85250051A WSB DU PDU WASHER, SIDE BIG 2001 on
1 22032083A WB DU PDU GASKET,DRAIN PLUG
1 88210031A DU PDU RING

On the older engine (2008 & older) that I've rebuilt, they have a 'red' bolt which is accessable from under the alternator cover.  It's got red paint on the head of it b/c it's special.  It's got an oil passage running through it.  I don't know if the 696 motor has the feature or not but if it does...then the bolt has to be replaced.

The list looks fine from what I can read off of the brief descriptions and all look necessary except the DP Ergal roller kit...

Definitely put the spacer between the cases and the cylinder.

Actually, the base gasket/shim listed in the parts catalogues says it's 0.4mm thick.
So, an additional base gasket on each cylinder should do the trick.

+1!  Sounds good to me.

[Raux]

hmm couldn't find it in the manual.

the deck height needs to raise 4.4mm going only 4mm gives me a compression ratio of 13:1 up from 12.2:1 with the extra .4

is that a little too high?

i looks like that gasket is aluminum. i might be able to machine one that is 8.4mm instead of putting 2x4mm

man i tell you though. reading the manual... phew taking apart and putting an engine back together is a jigsaw puzzle x 1million.

[Speeddog]

Wait a minute.

How much do you need to raise the deck height?

Is it 0.4mm?

4.4mm?

8.4mm?

[Raux]

4.4 mm

[Speeddog]

Which cambelts are you going to use?

[Speeddog]

Sorry if that seems an obscure question....

The 696 belts will be *way* too short if you raise the head 4.4mm.

[Raux]

yeah that was something i had been thinking about as well. the timing belts have to be 8.8mm longer

[Duck-Stew]

Hmmm...  The 696 belts (from your parts listing above) are 70 teeth.  You'd likely need a set of 72 tooth belts (as the belts are only available in an even # of teeth).

I don't have the info in front of me, but IIRC those would be M900 belts.....

[Raux]

Hmmm...  The 696 belts (from your parts listing above) are 70 teeth.  You'd likely need a set of 72 tooth belts (as the belts are only available in an even # of teeth).

I don't have the info in front of me, but IIRC those would be M900 belts.....

Stu, I knew you would have the answer