9/19/09 Crash Analysis

[maillotpois]

I think that's a big part of the David Hough Proficient Motorcycling book - that you want to be able to see as far through the corner as possible, so you late apex.

That is a GREAT book.  I really learned a lot from it - which also helped my cycling descending skills as well.  I found that book a lot more helpful for everyday riding than any of the Code books or any of the more sport-riding specific books.  It may seem a little basic, but I found it really accessible and helpful.

Really great posts about the accident - I am one who takes that particular corner in first, with the clutch largely in.  I live just over the hill from it, so I ride it almost every week.  again, glad everyone's ok.

[Michael Moore]

I grabbed the corner in question from Google Earth and drew a couple of hypothetical lines through it.

The red line represents the "early apex", which you'll notice puts you pretty close to the edge, with little margin for error.

The green line is the "late apex" which requires a tighter turn initially, but gives you more comfort/margin on the exit.

[somegirl]

I grabbed the corner in question from Google Earth and drew a couple of hypothetical lines through it.

The red line represents the "early apex", which you'll notice puts you pretty close to the edge, with little margin for error.

The green line is the "late apex" which requires a tighter turn initially, but gives you more comfort/margin on the exit.

You might want to mention which direction that's for (for people who weren't there or aren't familiar with the route), as it's different right and left the way you drew it.

[GrendelsTwin]

For those that don't know the turn the direction of travel for MM's post is from the bottom of the picture up and to the left.   

[mostrobelle]

You might want to mention which direction that's for (for people who weren't there or aren't familiar with the route), as it's different right and left the way you drew it.

The uphill direction typically isn't a problem because it's 1.  uphill and 2.  it opens up.  But yeah, that probably would be helpful to know which direction we're discussing here.   

[Desmostro]

+3 or what-ever it is now.

I have started a variation of this myself while either riding for fast or while riding for safty:
 Mr.I, who lives on Pescadero Rd. (blissfully twisty and highly frequented So. Bay rd.) got me thinking after he pointed out that while in his truck, he has to swerve from hitting the heads of sportbikers apexxing with wheels on the right, and head hanging over the double yellow.   

That would be a closed casket funeral if you get my drift.

I generally don't go into switchbacks with the engine in neutral. Lately, I've been trying to do two things:  brake REALLY deep into the turn and stay on the outside of the turn rather than the inside.  Once I can see an almost straight line out of the turn, then I turn in.  The apex I'm shooting for is more than halfway through the turn (so not the bottom of the U).  That way, I know that I'm exiting in more of a straight line and not going to get pushed wide.   

[Michael Moore]

+3 or what-ever it is now.

I have started a variation of this myself while either riding for fast or while riding for safty:
 Mr.I, who lives on Pescadero Rd. (blissfully twisty and highly frequented So. Bay rd.) got me thinking after he pointed out that while in his truck, he has to swerve from hitting the heads of sportbikers apexxing with wheels on the right, and head hanging over the double yellow.   

That would be a closed casket funeral if you get my drift.

I see your point, but you're still in a better position if you're head-over-the-yellow, on the inside of the corner vs. wheels-over-the-yellow on the outside of a right-hander. It's a lot easier to make a small adjustment and run a bit wider, than try to bring the bike back into your lane. All this assumes of course you can see where you're headed...

[Desmostro]

That is very very true. In fact that little detail escaped my description. I was talking to DQ about this when we went to Skaggs, treating right handers and left handers a little different making things complicated.

I simply try to aim with the white stripe on the right instead of the DDBL Yellow.
You got something perfected? 'cause I want to hear it. This has been a pretty new experiment for me.

I see your point, but you're still in a better position if you're head-over-the-yellow, on the inside of the corner vs. wheels-over-the-yellow on the outside of a right-hander. It's a lot easier to make a small adjustment and run a bit wider, than try to bring the bike back into your lane. All this assumes of course you can see where you're headed...

[TCK!]

Anyone looking for a bit of practice on the braking deep turning in late, give the American Supercamp School a try. It was very informative on this style of riding.

[somegirl]

I see your point, but you're still in a better position if you're head-over-the-yellow, on the inside of the corner vs. wheels-over-the-yellow on the outside of a right-hander. It's a lot easier to make a small adjustment and run a bit wider, than try to bring the bike back into your lane. All this assumes of course you can see where you're headed...

The head over the yellow is only a problem when the rider is on a left-hander. 

On a right-hander he/she would be leaning away from oncoming traffic.

It really sucks having to make evasive maneuvers in a cage for someone who is leaning their head in your way.

[Popeye the Sailor]

I see your point, but you're still in a better position if you're head-over-the-yellow, on the inside of the corner vs. wheels-over-the-yellow on the outside of a right-hander. It's a lot easier to make a small adjustment and run a bit wider, than try to bring the bike back into your lane. All this assumes of course you can see where you're headed...

Given the line of sight for most of the corners out this a way, and the number of exceptionally large, yet impressively fast pickups I see, I think it's best to reiterate how bad this can get. It's honestly at the point where if I maintained the line in the cage, I would kill someone. I'm not sure people realize what they're actually doing.

[Michael Moore]

Prolly best to keep your head in your lane at all times, right or left.

There's a right-hander on the way up to Olema that has a big eucalyptus tree that'll take your head clean off if you let it...

My comment to Eric was just that it's easier to recover by running wide than to fix a blown right-hander and bring it back in.  I wasn't advocating hanging over the dbl yellow.

[Spidey]

Prolly best to keep your head in your lane at all times, right or left.

Bah, humbug!  You used to be fun.  What happened?

Re the line through the turn, while I generally try to late apex on the street, I find it takes particular thought to get the line right on downhill U turns.  You have to wait what seems like foryever until you turn in. 

[mostrobelle]

I wasn't advocating hanging over the dbl yellow.

Like hell you weren't.  I hear you all the time:  "If you aren't hangin' it on the DY, you ain't really riding."  We *know* the truth, Risky McRiskyton.   

[Michael Moore]

Hush you two. I'm trying to put on a good front for the kids...