Riding safe on public roads. What it means.

[Popeye the Sailor]

I don't wear condoms when I eat bacon either!

PSA: The grease makes an excellent, and tasty lubricant.

[woodyracing]

the only way to be safe on public roads is to buy a track bike and stop riding on public roads.  Worked well for me.

That said, I rode on the street for probably 4 out of the 6 years I've been riding and never had a crash (plenty on the track, just none on the street).  I'm a whole other level of paranoid and tend to stick with slower bikes (air-cooled Ducs for example, fastest bike I ever owned was an 03 600RR).  I've never gotten a knee down on the street, though I did try when I first started riding, fortunately I grew out of that once I started doing trackdays.  Still have never in my life done an intentional wheelie.

[Scotzman]

the only way to be safe on public roads is to buy a track bike and stop riding on public roads.  Worked well for me.

That said, I rode on the street for probably 4 out of the 6 years I've been riding and never had a crash (plenty on the track, just none on the street).  I'm a whole other level of paranoid and tend to stick with slower bikes (air-cooled Ducs for example, fastest bike I ever owned was an 03 600RR).  I've never gotten a knee down on the street, though I did try when I first started riding, fortunately I grew out of that once I started doing trackdays.  Still have never in my life done an intentional wheelie.

Have you done a wheelie accidentally on purpose?

[Setsukosan]

+1 for this thread. It was a good read, and a good reinforcer for me being a safer driver than I once was.

[Statler]

To me the key here is the word public.   Riding safe on public roads for an experienced rider means doing so in a way that is not putting other people at risk.    Riding safe on public roads for an inexperienced rider means doing so in a way that doesn't overwhelm your finite amount of concentration (more of which is taken up by simply operating the bike) such that you put others at risk; and here there is a bit more emphasis on minimizing personal risk too so as to lengthen riding career.

[MonsterMI]

I like the difference posted earlier between "safe" and "risk". Riding a motorcycle is inherently an unsafe act, and nothing you or anybody else can do will change that fact. The amount of risk you take based on your skills and experience, and the conditions you are currently riding in changes every second.

The major difference I see is when your amount of risk changes from risk to yourself to risk to other people. I remember seeing a video online somewere when some asshat was doing a forever wheelie going way too fast and lost it, he caused a head on collision between two "cagers" during his little feat. Was his risk acceptable to him? maybe. Was it acceptable to the people he hurt because of it? No f'ing way.

Risk and safety go hand in hand. Maybe instead of saying Ride Safe People, we should be saying, Ride Less Risky People.

[koko64]

I thought I would try to speak to the title of the thread topic.
Many of you will already know what I'm talking about. This is aimed at newbies. Riding motorcycles is the best fun you can have with your clothes on. Period.

I'm a middle aged ex-club racer. A humble C-grader who never won. Nowdays I just do track days on my old race bike. I have really noticed that I have changed my approach to riding on public roads. Safety skills or risk assessment are a big part of my thinking now. I realise that sheer dumb luck played a big part of my previous safety strategy.

The more time I spent on the track, the more I realised that public roads required a different emphasis in my thinking and skill set. The track is a one dimensional and focused environment. It's got a purity of purpose compared to public roads.

On the track you focus on your task of getting around it as quickly as possible and when racing, ahead of everyone else. You are trying to defeat the track and other riders on it as they get in your way. Safety is something that other people are managing for you; race officials, flag marshals, medics, etc and there are rules to obey, but the objective is still to go as fast as possible. That is the main thing for you to concern yourself with. There are no U-turning cars, everyone is going the same direction and a nice run off area is cleared for you. In fact you have more chance of getting into trouble if you are not fast enough!

On public roads you are responsible for all those safety issues and have to manage them. Just you. You are pretty much on your own. There are no kind people with flags letting you know of oil or gravel on the road, if someone is about to overtake you or if there is danger around the corner. You are in charge of deciding how much of your attention is going to be invested in your safety and how much to riding fast and extending your skills. There is a whole skill set about keeping yourself and others safe, think of it as a two wheeled martial art.

I have noted that I now evaluate the kind of road I am riding and what kind of riding style is appropriate for that stretch of road. There are roads that I can't go fast on even though I am capable of doing so. It's almost like an internal rev limiter! I just know that riding as fast as I am capable of will get me killed if something or someone else goes wrong.

Let me explain, I can't set my turn point and corner speed unless I know the corner exit. I can't let go to do it anymore! If I don't know the road, I can't choose my corner entry point and corner speed unless I can see thru the corner or know it in my minds eye. On the track the corner might be blind, but that's ok if I know the track, because I know what happens next. It's memorised.

There is a road with no side roads or intersections, good vision through corners, it's smooth and I know its layout. It's like a racetrack unravelled. But it's not.The main dangers are oncoming traffic straying into your lane and gravel washed onto the road. If still have to keep plenty in reserve. My riding friends can't touch me there. They wonder why I'm so slow on other roads. It's relatively safe for me to go quick there, as long as I'm riding The Pace (keeping some in reserve).

My younger riding buddies have never raced and are slow on track days, but they are often faster than me on public roads. Let's put it in perspective..The speed with which they leave me for dead on public roads is actually slow on the track.

On four out of five occasions I am the one they leave behind as they tear away, but I have made a different decision to them about how the road should be ridden. It's because on those other roads I can't plan any safety contingencies for the unexpected. Those guys don't leave enough margin. I worry about them and they think I am an old fart when I talk about it. But age has nothing to do with it if you leave your safety in the hands of the unknown.

My A-grade racer mentor rarely rides on public roads. He is fast, fast enough to qualify for world superbikes. But he is cautious on the road and waits for the right time and place to show just some of his incredible skills. I love road riding but it requires a whole additional set of skills.

Who would like to discuss them?



   

[koko64]

Oh yeah. In relation to wearing a condom when eating bacon. SWINE FLU!!!!

[OT]

Sometime last year a 60-ish (years old) fellow died in a cycle accident when he hit a deer(?) at night somewhere near the Grand Canyon.  I don't recall the details or his name, but I recall he was a highly respected MC safety expert and journalist.

IMHO, only reason he died is because he hit the deer while riding on a MC instead of while riding inside a Hummer.

In his case, safety had everything to do with his protective "gear" in the collision, that is, MC = virtually none; Hummer = a lot.

Was he unsafe?  I'd say no, just unlucky.  He was (probably subconsciously) playing the odds that he wouldn't encounter a large obstacle in the middle of the road.

For me, safety is just about getting the odds of an accident (fatal or otherwise) down to a level that can be tolerated, either by a rider or by the other motorists he/she will encounter on the road that day.

IMO, traffic lights, lines, speed limits, etc., exist less for safety as they do to keep the traffic flowing in a manageable way (otherwise, lane splitting wouldn't be legal).  Crossing the double-yellow to pass the farm vehicle is safe, I would say, as long as oncoming traffic wasn't forced to have to deal with the MC that crossed the line (that is, the MC doesn't create an emergency condition for other motorists).  Accelerating above the speed limit to avoid merging traffic that's ignoring a "yield" sign or trying to make the upcoming exit isn't unsafe as long as the other motorists around the MC aren't forced to take drastic action by the MC's move.  Riding 110 MPH on the turnpike/freeway/thruway where it's ramrod straight for three miles isn't unsafe unless there's an obstacle (e.g. abutment, parked car on the shoulder) that the MC/rider could strike if the MC/rider fell and slid out of control.

Riders wear helmets "in case" they fall off...otherwise I think helmets actually decrease riding safety 'cause they block fields-of-view that are otherwise clear.  Likewise, riders wear leathers, boots, and gloves "in case" they fall off, yet the risk of heat stroke goes way up during the summer when riding with all that "insulation" on...

The odds of an accident/injury can only be reduced/mimized - they can't be eliminated or reduced to zero...'cause anything can happen.

[JJG1975]

Have you done a wheelie accidentally on purpose?

I'm not not doing wheelies

[Wonked]

I have noted that I now evaluate the kind of road I am riding and what kind of riding style is appropriate for that stretch of road. There are roads that I can't go fast on even though I am capable of doing so. It's almost like an internal rev limiter! I just know that riding as fast as I am capable of will get me killed if something or someone else goes wrong.

Let me explain, I can't set my turn point and corner speed unless I know the corner exit. I can't let go to do it anymore! If I don't know the road, I can't choose my corner entry point and corner speed unless I can see thru the corner or know it in my minds eye. On the track the corner might be blind, but that's ok if I know the track, because I know what happens next. It's memorised.

There is a road with no side roads or intersections, good vision through corners, it's smooth and I know its layout. It's like a racetrack unravelled. But it's not.The main dangers are oncoming traffic straying into your lane and gravel washed onto the road. If still have to keep plenty in reserve. My riding friends can't touch me there. They wonder why I'm so slow on other roads. It's relatively safe for me to go quick there, as long as I'm riding The Pace (keeping some in reserve).

I am routinely the slowest in my group in the mountains because I do not allow myself to push it without being able to see a sufficient length of road ahead. I like bikes that are fun even going the speed limit (superbikes are track-only for me). There's something to be said for not always seeking an adrenaline rush on a motorcycle. Sometimes it's just fun to appreciate the little stuff.

[Moronic]

There is a road with no side roads or intersections, good vision through corners, it's smooth and I know its layout. It's like a racetrack unravelled. But it's not.The main dangers are oncoming traffic straying into your lane and gravel washed onto the road. If still have to keep plenty in reserve. My riding friends can't touch me there. They wonder why I'm so slow on other roads. It's relatively safe for me to go quick there, as long as I'm riding The Pace (keeping some in reserve).

Great post koko64. I find the same thing these days - probably moreso on the slow side as where I live there are very few roads I deem okay to play a bit on. It is funny that even at age 51 and with considerable track and fast group ride experience over more than 30 years, I still feel somewhat slighted when people I am riding with who don't know me well assume I am going as fast as I can, rather than as fast as I feel is reasonable in the circumstances. The latter being often very much slower than the former, and also often a lot slower than other people think is okay.

[Mojo S2R]

 

[DCXCV]

“Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?” George Carlin

[Ontario_Monster]

To me the key here is the word public.   Riding safe on public roads for an experienced rider means doing so in a way that is not putting other people at risk.    Riding safe on public roads for an inexperienced rider means doing so in a way that doesn't overwhelm your finite amount of concentration (more of which is taken up by simply operating the bike) such that you put others at risk; and here there is a bit more emphasis on minimizing personal risk too so as to lengthen riding career.

I think you hit this perfectly, if you aren't putting other poeple at risk, as a rider you are always at risk, trying not to put anyone else or thier property at risk is the key I believe.  Riding within your abilities is important, recognizing the track is a safe place to test your max limits is safer. 

This has been a good dicussion thanks.