Federal Government Will Conduct First Major Motorcycle Crash Causation Study In

[vw151]

one of the most asinine websites i have ever made the mistake of looking at (NOT an attack on the person who posted the link BTW)

+1  what a strange website

[ducatiz]

never work...
[tongue in cheek,sorta]most of the repli-racers are sold to first time riders[/tongue in cheek, sorta]

It's probably true, but frankly, i think the manufacturers would love to have a 400/600cc market in the USA.  The M620 Capirex sold very well too, even if not a RR.

[corey]

http://www.solarnavigator.net/history/explorers_history/USA_declaration_of_independence.jpg

[Goat_Herder]

one of the most asinine websites i have ever made the mistake of looking at (NOT an attack on the person who posted the link BTW)

Sorry about that.  I just did a search for helmet law and map.  Thought that the map was a pretty good visual representation of which state helemt law and which doesn't.  I didn't pay attention to the rest of the website and the purpose of the site. 

Cheers

[EvilSteve]

I think a graduated license works well based on CCs but that doesn't meant that the bike is easy to ride. Power to weight might be an option but limits should be placed on the weight of a bike. Those 600lb 60hp HDs aren't great starter bikes either.

As for the "gubment takin your baby" entitlement arguments - does anyone here want to complain that the government regulates getting a pilot's license? What's the difference?

Licensing generally (car/bike) in the US is crap IMO, they could both use a serious overhaul.

[corey]

I think a graduated license works well based on CCs but that doesn't meant that the bike is easy to ride. Power to weight might be an option but limits should be placed on the weight of a bike. Those 600lb 60hp HDs aren't great starter bikes either.

As for the "gubment takin your baby" entitlement arguments - does anyone here want to complain that the government regulates getting a pilot's license? What's the difference?

Licensing generally (car/bike) in the US is crap IMO, they could both use a serious overhaul.

how about instead of asking what the differences are between flying a plane, and riding a motorcycle, you tell us what the similarities are.

in my eyes, if you can pass the test, you can ride the bike. any bike you want. that's your prerogative of property ownership. you can buy whatever you want and ride it. obviously you still have to play by the rules (registration, insurance) that are already in place.

what about cars? will they start a graduated license there? no cars with more than 120hp until your 21?

[somegirl]

what about cars? will they start a graduated license there? no cars with more than 120hp until your 21?

It's not based on engine size, but California does have a fairly new graduated license law for teenagers.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/minors.htm
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/minors_vio_actns_phns.htm

Basically it requires:
Drivers ed class
6 hours professional instruction
50 hours supervised behind the wheel practice
6 months with a permit

After meeting those teens can apply for a provisional license:

Once you have your provisional license, you may drive alone as long as you do not have accidents or traffic violations. (More information about actions against provisional licenses.)

When you become 18 years old, the “provisional” part of your license ends. You may keep the photo license you have or pay a fee for a duplicate license without the word “provisional.”

During the first 12 months after you are licensed, you cannot drive between 11 pm and 5:00 am and you cannot transport passengers under age 20 unless you are accompanied by your parent or guardian, a licensed driver 25 years of age or older, or a licensed or certified driving instructor.

There are a few exceptions.

[somegirl]

I think a graduated license works well based on CCs but that doesn't meant that the bike is easy to ride. Power to weight might be an option but limits should be placed on the weight of a bike. Those 600lb 60hp HDs aren't great starter bikes either.

I think the graduated licensing in the UK starts around 125cc, and once you're over 500cc it's all the same (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

[Doctor Woodrow]

Washington state has something very similar to that graduated driver's liscense program also. I'm not sure exactly how it works b/c I got my liscense a while befor ethey instituted it and my only child justturned one, so reading up on it has not been high on my list of priorities.

Oh, and I agree about that helmet law site being total idiocity, from my quick perusal they seem to want to ABOLISH helmet laws and think they ar eunconstitutional. I'm one for the graduated cycle liscense, and have spent time discussing the possible benefits of required safety gear in addition to them. Not that I think anything like that would ever pass.

The Doc

[herm]

It's probably true, but frankly, i think the manufacturers would love to have a 400/600cc market in the USA.  The M620 Capirex sold very well too, even if not a RR.

I actually think manufacturers would as well. get the new riders on the brand. if they live, then they could set some sort of hook to bring them back in when the reached the allowable age

[Drjones]

how about instead of asking what the differences are between flying a plane, and riding a motorcycle, you tell us what the similarities are.

in my eyes, if you can pass the test, you can ride the bike. any bike you want. that's your prerogative of property ownership. you can buy whatever you want and ride it. obviously you still have to play by the rules (registration, insurance) that are already in place.

what about cars? will they start a graduated license there? no cars with more than 120hp until your 21?

Both are a form of motorized transport.
Both have the consequence of death or serious injury if one crashes.
Both are operated in public areas.
Both are required to operate within said public areas according to their respective governing laws.

The regulations for car and motorcycle licensure are a joke and need to be strengthened, but I don't believe in a graduated license structure so much. Just that the written test needs to be 3x harder and trooper evaluated road tests need to be mandatory.

[DucSeason]

As for the "gubment takin your baby" entitlement arguments - does anyone here want to complain that the government regulates getting a pilot's license? What's the difference?

Licensing generally (car/bike) in the US is crap IMO, they could both use a serious overhaul.

I agree that graduated motorcycle licensing is a good thing, riding courses are good, and wearing proper gear is good. I also agree that US drivers are, on the whole, undertrained. But the fact is that the government already regulates getting a motorcycle license. We still have to study and pass a test, written and often driving. In Florida, it is mandatory that you show up at DMV with a MSF Beginner's Riding Course completion card, or no license. That's not so bad.

The big however, though, is that after putting up with the ever-changing, mind-numbing, ill-advised, sea of USAF motorcycle regulations over the last 21 years, I would absolutely hate to see the federal government do for motorcycling what the Air Force has. There's so much buffoonery in USAF safety directives it would drive a sane man batty. I have to say, I'm skeptical about government intervention. I'm not saying it couldn't be for the good, but I have serious doubts.

As for the pilot analogy, motorcyclists don't have such closely regulated traffic patterns or controlled airspace worries, we don't have intricate emergency procedures, or instruments to learn, or flight characteristics to be aware of, or complex weather effects to be wary of, or radios to operate, or ATC centers to deal with, or a federal agency that closely controls every aspect of how we operate......... I think there is a big difference between me hopping on the bike and riding down a country highway and me submitting a flight plan, prepping a plane, getting clearance to taxi/take-off, having my heading/airspeed/altitude controlled by the tower, having my subsequent heading/airspeed/altitude controlled by a Center, navigating by instruments, constantly monitoring a plethora of performance indicators, etc.  I'm not trying to be a smartass, so please don't take offense. I just think we're talking apples/oranges.

[Spidey]

but I cannot understand any resistance to requiring a new rider to ride only low power bikes for a period of time

I can understand how moto manufacturers would resist this law.  With big contributions to whatever committee is voting on the rules package.

[NAKID]

It's not based on engine size, but California does have a fairly new graduated license law for teenagers.

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/minors.htm
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/minors_vio_actns_phns.htm

Basically it requires:
Drivers ed class
6 hours professional instruction
50 hours supervised behind the wheel practice
6 months with a permit

After meeting those teens can apply for a provisional license:

There are a few exceptions.

Or, they can just wait until they turn 18 and get a regular license and not really be any more mature than at 16...

[WhiteStripe]

So, i am FULLY prepared to get flamed to bits on this, but this is an honest question.

Why would any of you actually want a helmet law?

I am from NH and split my time between there and MA.  I WOULD NEVER ride without a helmet.  I woudl never ride with someone else who wasn't wearing a helmet.  I beleve 110% in helmets.

That said, if someone else wants to choose to ride without a helmet I am not sure how it impacts me that much.  Drunk driving - impacts me.  Speeding (often guilty) could impact me.  Choosing to not wear a helmet - stupid person making a stupid choice, doesn't impact me..

I feel like anytime the gov't gets involved and starts to regulate what i do they get it wrong.  Starts with a helmet law, ends with the banning of all two wheeled vehicles on public roads?

Again - i am not being an asshole here - honestly curious why others feel strongly about this, and i will reiterate i use a helmet 100% of the time and hope all of you do to.

Educate me.

<ducking>