UFC/MMA (...SPOILERS WILL BE POSTED)

[Sinister]

Does tito fight any more?

He's left the UFC. Not sure where he'll land, but I'd guess he'll be on an Affliction card in the near future.

[metallimonster]

Tito did not leave the UFC he was run out by Dana because they couldn't get along and his past 4 or 5 fights sucked. 

He should be fighting Babalu at Oct's Affliction event.

By the way the best place for MMA news is .  www.mmajunkie.com

[Sinister]

Yeah, the "junkie" has really become a great clearinghouse for info.  Check out http://www.mma-core.com and http://www.mmatko.com for fight vids.

[ducducgooseme]

Wow, MY heart hurts just watchin Butter Bean

http://www.mmatko.com/butterbean-vs-wesley-cabbage-correira-video-k-1-grand-prix-hawaii/

[hbliam]

I didn't answer up in the past but couldn't take anymore of this Lesnar hooha. He's a goof.

Tito did not leave the UFC he was run out by Dana because they couldn't get along and his past 4 or 5 fights sucked. 

Tito was not run out, his contract was up. Three out of his last five fights were some of the biggest moneymakers in UFC history. Problem is he is one of the most vocal fighters concerning the low percentage of the take the fighters are getting.

I think your wrong when you say who cares.  I think a lot of people are interested in Lesnar whether they like him or hate him which means more buys for the UFC.  Why misjudge the guy just because he was pro wrestler.  He was also a 2 time NCAA champ in wrestling.  So when you discount him you also have to discount guys like Matt Hamil, Josh Koshcheck, Mark Coleman, and Matt Hughes to name a few.  This guy is the real deal.

Putting Lesnar in the same league as Hughes or Koshcheck just because he wresteled in college is a bit off IMO. Lesnar has no real skills other then wrestling, and being BIG. He's a one dimensional mass of muscle.

I didn't think you were wishing ill will on this guy. In fact I love this thread and typically you and I are the ones posting on here.  I'm just a big Lesnar fan (yes from his WWF days) and thought when you called him an oof I thought you were disounting him.  I think if MMA fans give him a chance they will be rewarded with a powerful fighter who can dominate.  I wouldn't want to take his best punch.  His fists are the size of canned hams.

Hence the problem. WWF/WWE is fake BS. I think the problem that most real MMA fans have with Lesnar is him prancing in like the UFC is the same thing. It's not. Right now he's the bearded lady of the UFC.

[metallimonster]

Dude your taking my points all out of contex and wrong.

Take a look at Koshchecks first fights.  All he did was want to wrestle.  Once he learned some better stand up and jitz his fights were much more fun to watch.  I was just trying to make the point that a lot of fighters start out with really good wrestiling skills and use that as a base to build on with stand up and jitz.

I can't say this enough and people still don't get it, Lesnar has had 3 count them 3 fights total in MMA, no amatuer fights and only 3 profesional fights.  He seems pretty impresive to me after 3 fights.  I'm not saying that he is the worlds biggest ass beater right now. You say he is one dimensional but did you see Herring's face after just one punch from him?  But give him 2 years and 5 or 6 more fights and he is going to be absolutely incredible.

I also don't think that Lesnar ever came prancing in thinking it was going to be like the WWE.  If anything he knew that he would have a target on his back and would have to work harder. Maybe the UFC advertises him to much as former WWE champion but I this guy is for real. If you watch any of his pre-fight videos or post fight press conferences he is very respectful of the other fighters and knows he has a lot of weaknesses and is trying to fix them.  Also he has to cut about 20 pounds before every fight which almost no other heavyweight has to do or the ones that do don't fight in the UFC where there is a limit.

This is my last post on Lesnar until he fights again because nothing is going to make anyone see past the WWE thing until he wins more which I am sure he will.  Kongo is next and he's going to look like Herring did after his match.  It just sucks to me that people can't get excited about him (just because he was in the WWE) and the other new heavyweights in the UFC because their division has been weak for a while. Oh yeah, Ken Shamrock wrestled in the WWE for about 2 years longer than Brock did and he is considered one of the best mma fighters ever ( I know he went from MMA to wrestling to MMA so don't post I didn't).   

Finally, yes Tito was still a big draw but that only had to do with his name because his last 5 or 6 fights sucked my dick and that is why he and Dana didn't want him in the UFC along with him being vocal about fighters salaries.

[hbliam]

Dude your taking my points all out of contex and wrong.

Sorry. I thought I quoted exactly the context. 

-Let's recap. Tito didn't get run out. He just won't fight for a pittance of the UFC take anymore. And saying Tito's only draw was his name? Uhh, they bought the fights because they like the name Tito? 
-Lesnar isn't a mixed martail artist.  The UFC advertises him as coming from the WWE so people that don't watch Nascar and WWE will know he's famous...somewhere.
-Shamrock never fought in the WWE, no one does. He acted. 

So we will sit back and see what Lesnar becomes. Unfortunately, he is going to bring some WWE fans with him. The same fans that boo a "slow" match because they don't have a clue what they are looking at.

[metallimonster]

First off never said Shamrock fought I said he wrestled in the WWE.

Never said Tito didn't get good ppv buys what I said was that Tito's last 4 or 5 fights sucked.  Talk about a boring fight, his last fight was horrible.  He spent 15 minutes running away from Machida and acting tough by lauging at him.  I used to love Tito when he really was the Huntington Beach Bad Boy instead of just trying to win fights by surviving.  His last good fight was against Forrest Griffin where he won but I felt that Griffin beat him.  They can talk all they want about the UFC's salary issues but the real reason Tito is gone is that he couln't beat anyone good in his division.  Let's face it Affliction had a successful ppv but their only strong division is the heavyweights and the rest of the fighters are people who couldn't hack it in the UFC or older fighters. 

I definitly agree with you about the WWE fans which can stay watching RAW.  I hope you don't think I am one of them because I absolutely love MMA and have been a fan since the UFC was bought by White and Zuffa.  I can see your point on Lesnar I just think that if he had never been in the WWE people would see him in a different light.  I think it sucks that he has this stigma just because he was a wrestler.  In any case he is helping out the UFC's heavyweight  division which was severly lacking.

By the way, why wouldn't you boo a boring match.  I hate watching Sherk wallow on someone for 15 minutes and I know your going to say that is what Lesnar did but I and everyone I watched it with thought the match was entertaining regardless. Those knees where nasty.  Like you said we'll see what happens.

[Sinister]

By the way, why wouldn't you boo a boring match. 

There's a difference between booing a boring match (which I still think is distasteful) and booing because the fight went to the ground and you have no idea what good BJJ is.  I don't think that a large percentage of "fans" understand the fight game enough to know a boring match when they see it.  Most fans don't understand why a fighter won't just wade in swinging and battle it out toe-to-toe, when their opponent happens to be an All-American college wrestler.  I didn't think that the Lesnar fight was boring, but it was due to the heart of Herring, not any massive attack by Lesnar, that I think so.

I can't say this enough and people still don't get it, Lesnar has had 3 count them 3 fights total in MMA, no amatuer fights and only 3 profesional fights.  He seems pretty impresive to me after 3 fights.  I'm not saying that he is the worlds biggest ass beater right now. You say he is one dimensional but did you see Herring's face after just one punch from him?

Lesnar has size and good takedowns.  That's it.  His standup is fair, but good for the time he's been in the game.  Against a good kickboxer with solid takedown defense, he could be in trouble.  Lesnar can hide a lot of weaknesses behind his size and ability to control from the top.  That does not mean he is a well-rounded fighter.  You brought up Koscheck, and he is a great example; until he really started working on his standup, he was not a very well-rounded fighter either, but he was competitive.  He still needs work on his boxing, but he is beating guys on the feet.  Same with Brock. 

[metallimonster]

Lesnar has size and good takedowns.  That's it.  His standup is fair, but good for the time he's been in the game.  Against a good kickboxer with solid takedown defense, he could be in trouble.  Lesnar can hide a lot of weaknesses behind his size and ability to control from the top.  That does not mean he is a well-rounded fighter.  You brought up Koscheck, and he is a great example; until he really started working on his standup, he was not a very well-rounded fighter either, but he was competitive.  He still needs work on his boxing, but he is beating guys on the feet.  Same with Brock. 
[/quote]

That is my point exactly.  People are already writing him off because he has a few weaknesses and was in the WWE.  I am very excited to see what he can do once he gets better on his feet and learns some better jitz.  If he can work hard and put it all together he will be unstopable. I'm not saying he is unstopable now just that he has the potential to be.

[metallimonster]

Oh, how the mighty have fallen. 

Ken Shamrock vs.  Kimbo Slice at Elite XC OCT4th.  They must have really wanted some ratings with this one because they are up against Ohio State/Wisconsin and USC/Oregon plus baseball playoffs. 

Hopefully Ken beats him but man is he old and tired.  I would love to see him knock the shit of Kimbo and show what a piece of crap he is.

[Sinister]

^^^Me, too.  Ken could have some trouble, though.

[metallimonster]

^^He could but his stand up is a million times better than the Thompson's and he gave Kimbo trouble. I doubt Kimbo will be able to hit him because he as fought some most of the best strikers ever.  The only way I see Kimbo winning this is by taking him down and ground and pound.  However that plays into Ken's strength- jitz and wrestiling.  I would love to see Ken knock him down with punches quick and then submit him. I try not to hate on Kimbo too much because he is kind of  (and I only mean only  a little bit) in Lesanar's situation.  However I think he sucks and was getting easy opponents the promoters new he would beat.  Lesnar fought a former champ in his second fight where as kimbo fought a tomato can.  Lesnar is a legit athelete any way you look at it and Kimbo is a hoodlum who got famous for bear knuckle and got sucked up by a promotion needing a draw.  If Kimbo tries his bs uppercuts where he leads with his face he is going to eat Shamrock's knees.

[Vindingo]

Though it seems I may be in the minority, I was very excited to see Lesnar join with the UFC because of his time at Minnesota.  I used to watch tapes of him wrestle guys like Stephen Neal and Pat Smith.  Lesnar is a legit athlete and a seriously big dude.  I think he will be a serious bad ass in just a short while.

Kimbo - I just dont care for him so much.  He is pretty old though, so it's not like he is going to be making a run for any belt.  I really hope the Shamrock beats the crap out of him.  It would be pretty embarassing it he didn't.  If getting pregnant doged around by Tito wasn't bad enough, a loss to Kimbo should be a pretty clear sign that he needs to hang up the gloves. 

[metallimonster]

Well,  looks like Lesnar is going to fight Couture in November. A win would be huge for Lesnar and a win for Couture would help bring him back in to the UFC (he signed a 3 fight deal).

I don't give Brock much of a chance but it should be a good fight for him to learn in.

Just goes to show that the UFC makes it's future star fighters fight rather than Elite XC who throws crap opponents (lets face it Shamrock hasn't been good in a few years- waaayyy past his prime) at Kimbo.