Volkswagen interested in buying Ducati?

[tristantumble]

just read this article, i wonder if vw did buy ducati how that would change the brand....

full story here: http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/15/rumormill-volkswagen-interested-in-ducati-still/

[derby]

http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=30781.0

[gregrnel]

That would SUCK. I hate VW, they make shitty, unreliable cars that cost an arm and a leg to fix and they treat their labor like turds. I don't think I could buy a Duc made by VW.

[NAKID]

That would SUCK. I hate VW, they make shitty, unreliable cars that cost an arm and a leg to fix and they treat their labor like turds. I don't think I could buy a Duc made by VW.

Wow, tell us how you really feel.

As an owner of 5 different VW's over the years, I have to disagree with you on the reliability...

[Porsche Monkey]

One of the techs I trained drives an old VW Corrado Turdwagon or something like that. Damn thing has over 260,000 miles on it and the motors never been into. Pretty unreliable if you ask me.

[gregrnel]

It's not the engines that falter, anyone outside of HD can build a long lasting engine.  it's everything else. Sorry, I've had about 10 friends and a brother fall for VW only to be burned dozens of times over with faulty electrical components, interiors falling apart and just general bad build quality. They've spent thousands on repairs for relatively low-mile vehicles that that spend more time in the shop than on the road. Just check out consumer reports, or do a search on VW lemons and you'll see what I mean.

[superjohn]

http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=30781.0

Gotta cut some credit for this thread having a much better title. The other thread would never show up in a search.


http://motorcycledaily.com/13october09_volkswagen.htm

I agree with the above link. I don't see how VW can successfully acquire a new division in the midst of a contentious battle for Porsche.

[LA]

I think it's nice Piëch is himself a Ducati rider at age 72, but Ducati seem to be going in the "right" direction currently.  I'd just as soon VW keeps it's paws off.

LA

[RetroSBK]

Ducati is going in the right direction? Really?

The problem with growing a small, stylish brand into a large brand is that they lose the style, and the small network that makes them so cool to own.

I agree with a  LOT of what Ducati is doing - Entry priced bikes, creating a club enviornment, etc. in the day of a HD shirt costing $19, shoudl a Ducati shirt cost $30 just beacuse some sucker will pay for it?

Dianese jacket for $550, Add the Ducati logo and its now $995?

I think a few things should change, and I think Ducati should be a lot more mainstream, but not at the expense of the loyalists (too much)

[Cloner]

Gotta cut some credit for this thread having a much better title. The other thread would never show up in a search.


http://motorcycledaily.com/13october09_volkswagen.htm

I agree with the above link. I don't see how VW can successfully acquire a new division in the midst of a contentious battle for Porsche.

That actually runs the other way around.  Porshe has been acquiring VW stock, not vice versa.  

It breaks down like this.....Porsche owns 42.6% of VW outright.  The German State of Lower Saxony owns 20%.  Porsche built up an option position to control another 31.5% of VW recently (for a total of 74.1%) and then demanded the return of shares borrowed by short sellers, forcing those speculative short sellers to buy shares that were now virtually impossible to get.  The only place they could buy shares to give back to Porsche was from Porsche!  This resulted in a share price spike from around 400 Euros per share before Porsche's announcement to around 1000 Euros per share after.  Porsche made billions of Euros and didn't sell a doggone thing.  This maneuver is called a "corner" and it's illegal in the U.S., though noone has tried doing it here with the use of options...so maybe it's not even technically illegal here.  Anyway........

I own two VWs.  They're well made vehicles.  The maintenance costs of my Ducatis substantially exceeds that of my VWs.  Does that mean Ducati's are less reliable than the VW's you chide, gregrnel?  I think I'd rather buy a bike from a company controlled by VW, than from one controlled by an investor group like TPG, or from a company contolled by the Italian Government.  Ducati has been controlled by both of those entities, yet somehow makes a product that appeals to me.

As far as treating their workers "like turds", they're turds who work four days a week, get what most Americans would consider excessive vacation benefits, don't have to pay for insurance, and make more money than most of their neighbors.  How bad can it be.  If they don't want to work, I'm sure we can find ample replacements for them in this economy.

[superjohn]

That actually runs the other way around.  Porshe has been acquiring VW stock, not vice versa.  

It breaks down like this.....Porsche owns 42.6% of VW outright.  The German State of Lower Saxony owns 20%.  Porsche built up an option position to control another 31.5% of VW recently (for a total of 74.1%) and then demanded the return of shares borrowed by short sellers, forcing those speculative short sellers to buy shares that were now virtually impossible to get.  The only place they could buy shares to give back to Porsche was from Porsche!  This resulted in a share price spike from around 400 Euros per share before Porsche's announcement to around 1000 Euros per share after.  Porsche made billions of Euros and didn't sell a doggone thing.  This maneuver is called a "corner" and it's illegal in the U.S., though noone has tried doing it here with the use of options...so maybe it's not even technically illegal here.  Anyway........

Didn't Porsche end up with a drastic turn around though, with a deflation of share value to the point that VW turned the deal around on them? I'm not a business major, so I didn't follow the ins and outs, but I knew at one point Porsche was leveraged to buy VW and then, seemingly overnight, it flipped around.

Sorry if this is a thread jack. Just curious.

Never mind, found the explanation on Forbes

http://www.forbes.com/2009/04/23/volkswagen-porsche-takeover-markets-debt.html

[Porsche Monkey]

Didn't Porsche end up with a drastic turn around though, with a deflation of share value to the point that VW turned the deal around on them? I'm not a business major, so I didn't follow the ins and outs, but I knew at one point Porsche was leveraged to buy VW and then, seemingly overnight, it flipped around.

Sorry if this is a thread jack. Just curious.

Yes and then Wiedeking was nicely asked to leave. A week later his office was raided to obtain evidence for prosecution. Now VW owns most of the shares in Porsche if I'm not mistaken.

[Mad Duc]

Porsche ran out of credit to buy VW, Porsche shares dumped, VW turned the tables around and will now be buying Porsche.

VW buying Ducati? No. Please no. I like VW but I fear that VW will turn Ducati into a boring brand. If they bought Ducati I wounder how long the Desmo valves would last? I sense cost cutting will ruining one of my favorite things about Ducati. 

[m1moto]

Unfortunately that's exactly what will happen

The problem with growing a small, stylish brand into a large brand is that they lose the style, and the small network that makes them so cool to own.

I always felt that owning a Ducati was a way for me – a mere average Joe – to own something exclusive for $15k. There is now way I can afford a Porsche or a Ferrari but a Ducati was attainable. If VW owns Ducati, there will be more R&D money and new models, technology sharing from Lamborghini/Bugati, manufacturing will be streamlined etc. but it will also become more mainstream. Maybe VW will grab MV as Harley is trying to get rid of it and MV can become the mainstream brand.

As for Ducati I get the impression that they are already loosing their way, considering the upcoming Multi and the stupid Viper power cruiser thing. When I look Guzzi's, Moto Morini's and the other Italian brands I still see the Italian edge associated with them. (see the drooling over the Guzzi Grizo http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=30615.0) Unfortunately for me, Ducati is becoming this big red blob where every new model is morphed from the 1198.

ok I'm off my soap box... I think I should go for a ride and love my Ducati again

[Mad Duc]

Cars & Motorcycles don't share much in common. Proton found that out when they bought MV Agusta. There's some commonality with engines & suspension, but not enough to share design resources.