Made in the USA

[Grampa]

this just in....... the chamber of commerce is evil.......

[Langanobob]

   Here are W. Edward Deming's 14 points for effective business. 


   1. Create constancy of purpose toward improvement of product and service, with the
       aim to become competitive and stay in business, and to provide jobs.
   2. Adopt the new philosophy. We are in a new economic age. Western                 
       management must awaken to the challenge, must learn their responsibilities,
       and take on leadership for change.
   3. Cease dependence on inspection to achieve quality. Eliminate the need for
       inspection on a mass basis by building quality into the product in the first place.
   4. End the practice of awarding business on the basis of price tag.
       Instead, minimize total cost. Move towards a single supplier for any one item,
       on a long-term relationship of loyalty and trust.
   5. Improve constantly and forever the system of production and service,
       to improve quality and productivity, and thus constantly decrease costs.
   6. Institute training on the job.
   7. Institute leadership (see Point 12 and Ch. 8 of "Out of the Crisis").
       The aim of supervision should be to help people and machines and gadgets
       to do a better job. Supervision of management is in need of overhaul,
       as well as supervision of production workers.
   8. Drive out fear, so that everyone may work effectively for the company.
       (See Ch. 3 of "Out of the Crisis")
   9. Break down barriers between departments. People in research, design,
       sales, and production must work as a team, to foresee problems of
       production and in use that may be encountered with the product or service.
  10. Eliminate slogans, exhortations, and targets for the work force asking
       for zero defects and new levels of productivity. Such exhortations
       only create adversarial relationships, as the bulk of the causes of low
       quality and low productivity belong to the system and thus lie beyond
       the power of the work force.
  11. a. Eliminate work standards (quotas) on the factory floor. Substitute leadership.
        b. Eliminate management by objective. Eliminate management by numbers,
           numerical goals. Substitute leadership.
  12. a. Remove barriers that rob the hourly worker of his right to pride of workmanship.
           The responsibility of supervisors must be changed from sheer numbers to quality.
        b. Remove barriers that rob people in management and in engineering
            of their right to pride of workmanship. This means, inter alia,
            abolishment of the annual or merit rating and of management by objective
            (See Ch. 3 of "Out of the Crisis").
  13.  Institute a vigorous program of education and self-improvement.
  14.  Put everybody in the company to work to accomplish the transformation.
         The transformation is everybody's job.

[Howie]

Low wages?  The article you posted said that the avg compensation for a manufacturing worker was $25/hr.  That is a pretty decent amount of money considering the job probably requires no formal education or training.  You don't think someone can live in Detroit on 50k a year?  If they can't make it work they are doing it wrong.  

I bet if you look at the countries where workers get paid more $ per hour, they get to pay a hell of a lot more taxes.  They get to pay 20 or 30% on their ducati where we do not.  They probably live more modestly, don't have as many kids, or if they do, have them later in life.  

Everyone here could live on less money.  The US labor force has cut off it's nose to spite it's face...

Hourly compensation includes the following:

> Hourly Direct Pay
>> Pay for Time Worked
>>> Basic wages
>>> Piece rate
>>> Overtime premiums
>>> Shift, holiday, or night work premiums.
>>> Cost-of-living adjustments
>>> Bonuses and premiums paid each pay period
>> Other Direct Pay
>>> Pay for time not worked (vacations, holidays, and other leave, except sick leave)
>>> Seasonal and irregular bonuses
>>> Allowances for family events, commuting expenses, etc.
>>> The cash value of payments in kind
>>> Severance pay (where explicitly not linked to a collective agreement)

> Employer Social Insurance Expenditures (both legally required and contractual and private) and
Other Labor Taxes
>> Retirement and disability pensions
>> Health insurance
>> Income guarantee insurance and sick leave
>> Life and accident insurance
>> Occupational injury and illness compensation
>> Unemployment insurance
>> Severance pay (where linked to a collective agreement)
>> Other social insurance expenditures
>> Taxes (or subsidies) on payrolls or employment

Hourly labor is only part of manufacturing cost.
What about over paid executives?

5
31
Table 4
CEO Compensation and Pay of Production Workers in Manufacturing, 2001 (US $)
CEO Compensation
Production Worker in
Manufacturing (4)
CEO/Worker
Pay Ratio
Country Rank
by Ratio

Couldn't get the table to come through, but what it says is we pay CEOs at a higher ratio to labor than other major industrial nations, 44 to 1, Japan the lowest at 16 to 1, way back in 2001.  I'm quite sure it is worse now  This ini can be found here:


Notes:
1) Average of Total CEO Compensation from The Galt Global Review (1999)
and from BBC News (2001):UK- Galt = $US 700,000; BBC = £509,019
Japan - Galt = $US 425,000; BBC = £385,128
Germany - Galt = $US 500,000; BBC = £298,223
USA - Galt = $US 1,200,000; BBC = £992,974
2) The National Post Business Magazine's annual CEO Scorecard: average CEO
compensation of Canada's 150 biggest companies by their firms' three-year share-price return.
3) CEO compensation data for Australia, France & Sweden from BBC
The Galt Review: www.galtglobalreview.com/world/world_ceo_salaries.html
BBC News: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1456723.stm#
www.nationalpost.com/nationalpostbusiness/archives/20021105/story.html?id=C47FA126-D194-42F1-BDD4-247D44F89560
(4) Manufacturing Pay:
Source: ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/ForeignLabor/supptab.txt (Table 5)
Annual Hours worked per person: www.dol.gov/ILAB/media/reports/oiea/chartbook/chart19.htm
Annual Hours worked per person in Canada: www.pbs.org/now/politics/workhours.html

Also read what Langanobob posted.  There are many ways to reduce manufacturing cost besides cutting wages of American workers. 

[herm]

or as OPM describes it...all of the above is the "cost to government" to employ an individual for a given period of time (can be broken down yearly,monthly,by pay period, etc...)

with cost to government = how much it costs to (try and) get something accomplished.

[Turf]

I've gotten crap for it before but made in america means absolutely nothing to me.

[redxblack]

There's an interesting documentary running on HBO about the NYC garment district that directly ties to the ideas in this thread. I liked it, although I would have liked them to dig deeper in the governmental policies rather than presenting surface criticism. How do you talk de-regulation without talking about Milton Freidman?

[Duck-Stew]

I still try to buy things made here for the quality and to support the country in which I live...

But I grow tired of the culture which praises 'LOW PRICES!' without thinking what it does to ones own country.

Perhaps some education to the masses is in order...  and some trade laws to help try to balance the huge trade-imbalance.

I'm no expert and this is just my experiences and opinion.

[Langanobob]

I still try to buy things made here for the quality and to support the country in which I live...

But I grow tired of the culture which praises 'LOW PRICES!' without thinking what it does to ones own country.

Perhaps some education to the masses is in order...  and some trade laws to help try to balance the huge trade-imbalance.

I'm no expert and this is just my experiences and opinion.

+1

[redxblack]

a lot of the "experts" are the problem. Theoretical economics are modeled, sometimes well. When they're put into the live world, issues arise. I'd give lots of examples of this, but economics and politics are kissing cousins and I don't want to violate anyone's rules.

[B.Rock]

I still try to buy things made here for the quality and to support the country in which I live...

But I grow tired of the culture which praises 'LOW PRICES!' without thinking what it does to ones own country.

Perhaps some education to the masses is in order...  and some trade laws to help try to balance the huge trade-imbalance.

I'm no expert and this is just my experiences and opinion.

Agreed. One other thing is accountability. Products made in China in particular sort of disappear into some nameless foreign industrial conglomerate with no reason to stand behind their products.
Also, they don't respect copyrights and intellectual property, which really rankles me.

[Duck-Stew]

a lot of the "experts" are the problem. Theoretical economics are modeled, sometimes well. When they're put into the live world, issues arise. I'd give lots of examples of this, but economics and politics are kissing cousins and I don't want to violate anyone's rules.

True and thanks for keeping this on track.

Some of this (again...my opinion) is based on the media's attention pointed to lower prices, spiraling costs, inflation and the coverage thereof.

Some more of this is based on the fact that since (I believe it was) 1969, the cost of living has out-paced wages paid to the average American forcing more people into a frenzy where more and more people are competing for less and less money.  

More rats, less cheese.  

(Stopping here b/c of the reasons above)

[Duck-Stew]

Agreed. One other thing is accountability. Products made in China in particular sort of disappear into some nameless foreign industrial conglomerate with no reason to stand behind their products.
Also, they don't respect copyrights and intellectual property, which really rankles me.

Completely agree on both points B.Rock. 

[cyrus buelton]

I've gotten crap for it before but made in america means absolutely nothing to me.

As I said, the money goes off shore anyway

[Langanobob]

^  A good portion of the net profits may go offshore anyway, I don't know, but I think more of the overall gross revenue stays than goes, including employee wages. 

[Langanobob]

from Duck Stew...I'd give lots of examples of this, but economics and politics are kissing cousins and I don't want to violate anyone's rules.

So far, this has been a fairly intelligent thread  (especially considering that it's on NMC)  It's an important topic and I hope we can continue discussing this without getting in trouble.