What loud pipes really say...

[kopfjäger]

^^ wow

[ducpainter]

Dont take this personally as I could have done the same with any number of other people that posted up the lame reason for running open pipes... and there is very little difference between a pure open pip and one with a can but no bafflesYour Logic is as flawed as your reasoning.
This reflects poorly on your intellect (at least you have some balls and taste though) and seeing as how this is your first bike you obviously don't have the survival skills that you should. No wonder you are basically relying on "Luck" as a major part of your survival. You have a good chance of being squashed by one of those BIG TRUCKS that didn't hear you coming.... oh or is it the minivan mom on the cell phone or the teenagers with the radio rocking to max volume
I'd take out a life insurance policy on you if I could as sort of a sad wager. If I cashed in on it I could use the proceeds to educate other ignorant Newbys to the damage people like you are doing TO MY SPORT...it's not yours until you live for several years and it is in your blood...lots of newbys give up the first time they leave a little blood on the street

getting kind of personal...and inflammatory

and really close to pissing me off...

I'd appreciate it if you backed it off a notch.

[NFG]

Your Logic is as flawed as your reasoning.

You're projecting your existing prejudices upon me, as you cleverly note when you say this could apply to everyone who doesn't agree with you.  I never said the loud pipes were all or most of my safety considerations when riding a bike.  I said every bit helps, and loud pipes help.  Helmet, gloves, riding jacket, boots, every time.  If you'd read what I said instead of stopping after 'loud!' you'd note the parts where I said I've got decades of pushbike experience in the mountains and in traffic, and I know how to read people, and I know damn well the only person responsible for keeping me out of trouble is me.

You know what my neighbor said to me, the first day we met?  "That's a nice bike."

My bike's not running cored or track pipes, it's not running straight pipes or anything ridiculous.  My father just picked up a Yoshimura track pipe for his Bergman scooter, and it sounds a lot louder than my M900 (until he put the volume decreaser thingus in it).  It's louder than most of the Jap bikes I see, but quieter than most Harleys and a LOT quieter than the dirt bikes that BRAP by all the time.

I don't take offense to your post.  If you weren't going off half-cocked and tearing strips off me, you'd probably be doing the same thing at someone else.  And I imagine they'd :rolleyes: at you for jumping to conclusions too.

You're not wrong to think loud pipes are obnoxious.  You're just wrong to think mine, which you've never heard, are too loud.  You're wrong to think I'm relying on noisy pipes to keep me safe.  And you're wrong when you post things like this on the intertubes - who'd take your words to heart when you're simultaneously betting on my early demise?  =P

[psycledelic]

Dont take this personally as I could have done the same with any number of other people that posted up the lame reason for running open pipes... and there is very little difference between a pure open pip and one with a can but no bafflesYour Logic is as flawed as your reasoning.
This reflects poorly on your intellect (at least you have some balls and taste though) and seeing as how this is your first bike you obviously don't have the survival skills that you should. No wonder you are basically relying on "Luck" as a major part of your survival. You have a good chance of being squashed by one of those BIG TRUCKS that didn't hear you coming.... oh or is it the minivan mom on the cell phone or the teenagers with the radio rocking to max volume
I'd take out a life insurance policy on you if I could as sort of a sad wager. If I cashed in on it I could use the proceeds to educate other ignorant Newbys to the damage people like you are doing TO MY SPORT...it's not yours until you live for several years and it is in your blood...lots of newbys give up the first time they leave a little blood on the street

Damn dude, lighten up. 

I am curious, have you decreed an exact amount on your "several years" limit cause I am a little curious if I have any ownership in "your" sport yet?

[1KDS]

This should get locked up tight soon,  too bad really it's been a good thread

[psycledelic]

This should get locked up tight soon,  too bad really it's been a good thread

What? No faith in the goodness of mankind?  I feel sure that this thread will turn back into a discussion of small peni "shortly". 

[EvilSteve]

The discussion of loud pipes never really goes anywhere because a certain percentage never want to accept that they're going to need to sacrifice some of their own freedom to have a chance to maintain more freedom in the long run. They believe that their rights trump everyone else's.

Until we, as a community, grow up and start being more responsible with these things, we're are going to be increasingly subject to ridiculous laws drafted by people who have no idea.

[NFG]

a certain percentage never want to agree with me and my own worldview, just as I have trouble accepting that I can't actually tell from here how loud everyone's pipes are.

I fixed that for you, EvilSteve. 

Seriously, it's not always about you.  You may not always be correct.  My loud pipes may not be too loud.  Sometimes quiet things are too quiet.

I also fixed this other thing you said:  "They believe that their rights trump everyone else's."  I'm sure you meant to say that "What I think is right and trumps what everyone else thinks."

You may be right.  In fact, in many cases, you probably are.  I don't know however that your case is furthered when you behave like this.  (I think we already covered the fact your name is appropriate, didn't we?)

[sbrguy]

here is the problem with the whole loud pipes argument on both sides.

where do you draw the line? and who decides what the line is?

you will always have one person saying something is too loud, and another saying its not loud enough.

you will always have someone think some acts are wrong, while others see nothing wrong with that same act at all.

so again who draws the line and where?

is simple majority rule ok? should it come from the riding community only or should it be decided by those that live in the area as a whole who have to deal with the effects of some people's actions?

the real problem is that everyone takes the "nimby" point of view and that is just how it is, we are all selfish and are only looking out for our own best interests.  that's life.

[NFG]

where do you draw the line? and who decides what the line is?

Wise, and true.  For now, we've got laws specifying the amount of noise allowed by bikes (in many places) and while we may not all agree with its usefulness, it's probably the only limit we can all agree exists.

There's no easy answer.  You're wrong about this though:

everyone takes the "nimby" point of view

EvilSteve's belief that he's arguing for the good of all of us puts the lie to what you say, though it proves you're right when you imply that it's hard to define a line.  We do not all agree, but I doubt any of us are intentionally acting selfishly.  For my own part, I don't believe I'm causing any problems for anyone: I'm within the legal noise limits, and my neighbors don't mind, so I'm travelin' just fine, thanks. 

[psycledelic]

The discussion of loud pipes never really goes anywhere because a certain percentage never want to accept that they're going to need to sacrifice some of their own freedom to have a chance to maintain more freedom in the long run. They believe that their rights trump everyone else's.

Not sure why anyone should have to sacrifice anything. If you have a quiet motorcycle because you want a quiet motorcycle, have a quiet motorcycle.  If you have a loud motorcycle because want a loud motorcycle, have a loud motorcycle.  If you want loud pipes because it makes you feel safer on the road, by all means, have them.  If you want quiet pipes because you feel morally obligated to your community, then do your part and ride the hell out of your quiet motorcycle. 

Sorry, but I just don't have the desire to give up my loud bike so that I have the right to have a loud bike. 
It's my right to have a loud bike. 
It's your right to not have a loud bike. 
It's your right to not like my loud bike,
but it's not your right to try to make me change my bike. 
If you believe that it is, then who's rights are trumping who's?

[ArguZ]

I really like the tone here
But seriously, I NEVER heard a Duc with TOO loud pipes.
The annoyingly loud bikes in my area are all customs and Harleys driven by people with no helmet and wings on the jeans jackets.
Oh wait...the MotoGP Ducati, that was a notch too loud for my taste.
So, its a matter of taste and sensibility.
And no, you don't have the right to have a too loud bike if you bother other people.
Thats the limit of your 'rights'

[Drjones]

Wonder what a diesel engine in any 3/4 ton to 1 ton truck on the road says about their drivers since just about every one around here are about as loud as any Ducati exhaust at 6krpm I've heard.

[psycledelic]

I really like the tone here
But seriously, I NEVER heard a Duc with TOO loud pipes.
The annoyingly loud bikes in my area are all customs and Harleys driven by people with no helmet and wings on the jeans jackets.
Oh wait...the MotoGP Ducati, that was a notch too loud for my taste.
So, its a matter of taste and sensibility.
And no, you don't have the right to have a too loud bike if you bother other people.
Thats the limit of your 'rights'

I'm not going to completely disagree with you.  No one has the right to intentionally "bother" anyone.  With that being said, managing not to bother people is impossible in today's society(in anything) and anyone who tries is going to have a very sucky life and still not succeed at it.
As far as your comment above, I (we) do have the right to have a loud bike.  How loud, it is up to   to decide.  I (we) don't have the right to throttle it in front of a church during a wedding.  That is intentionally bothering other people.  In my opinion, that is the limit.  
If I am mistaken and your statement is correct, please allow me to make one minor change:
"And no, you don't have the right to smoke in public if you bother other people.
Thats the limit of your 'rights' " [/quote]
Not taking a shot a smokers, but just sayin', if merely bothering people was the main factor, where would it end!

[angler]

Not taking a shot a smokers, but just sayin', if merely bothering people was the main factor, where would it end!

And therein lies the rub of all this talk of moralism.   It won't end if we don't make it end.  Most second hand smoke research is rubbish, really.  However, society has decided primarily on moral grounds to come down hard on smoking. Wouldn't it be nice if everyone in the world took personal responsibility and consideration for others to heart?  YES. The trouble is many don't.  Is the answer in increasing the reach of the nanny state?  NO!  Do we have a personal responsibility to behave in a way in line with social norms?  Perhaps, but there are limits.  Sometimes social norms are bogus.  I feel limits based on things as subjective as morality should NOT be put in place by government.  If there is a physical safety noise limit, then by all means codify it in a law and enforce it.  I believe we also have a personal responsibility to stand up for things we like, even if it pisses some people off.

I understand that ability to have loud pipes is tempered by my ability to be a responsible citizen.  I have boomtubes, as stated before.  They are loud, but have the most restrictive baffles.  My neighbors don't mind the noise (I live is a dense 'hood and am close to my neighbors) and I am very careful about noise in the 'hood and everywhere really.  My airbox honk is louder than the pipes at most any throttle.  Can I make them be obnoxiously loud?  Yes.  Do I make them obnoxiously loud?  Yes in the same situations that I would use my horn.  Does it work?  Like the hand of god reached out and took their crackberry away from them while driving.

So grow a set.  A set of personal responsibility and a set of freakin' balls to stand up to these nanny types that want to legislate crap like this.