What loud pipes really say...

[NFG]

NFG - I'm sorry but you don't get it.

Seems to me we're having two entirely different conversations.  I'm saying loud pipes get you noticed, you're saying there are rules against too-loud pipes and so on. 

I guess you're right: I admit I don't get how you think you're responding to me with things that have nothing to do with what I say.

[psycledelic]

Any time after the first paragraph, I wasn't actually directing anything at you, sorry for my poor writing skills.

No worries.  I wasn't taking anything you were saying personally.  I am a little envious of your writing skills.  Hell, I couldn't have even spelled metaphorically, much less used it in a sentence that made sense. 

[Popeye the Sailor]

This doesn't make sense at all. That someone notices me 'cause of the noise I make does not mean I was in an unsafe place before.  One thing does not logically lead to the other.

For example: another driver with no intention of doing anything but driving a straight line.  He wasn't looking as I crept up behind him, but he heard the noise.  Now he knows I'm there, but I wasn't in an unsafe place before or after this awareness crept up on him.

Why would it matter that the driver in front of you be aware of you? The only time I could see it mattering is if you were following too close.



Not to get personal about it, but don't you think 4 weeks experience isn't really enough for you to make a judgment yet?

[EvilSteve]

Seems to me we're having two entirely different conversations.  I'm saying loud pipes get you noticed, you're saying there are rules against too-loud pipes and so on. 

I guess you're right: I admit I don't get how you think you're responding to me with things that have nothing to do with what I say.

I've said plenty about why loud pipes saving lives is a load of crap, I won't bore the rest of the board by repeating it. The fact is that irrespective of the angle we approach this issue, having loud pipes is what's in question. You're saying it's a safety issue (I, and others disagree) I'm saying it's illegal and that people should get quieter pipes because otherwise we get draconian laws. In fact, ultimately, we agree. If NYC style laws come to pass *everyone* will have quiet bikes and, by your logic, suffer for it. I just want to have some freedom left and am prepared to suffer a little for it now rather than have it completely taken away later.

As much as I dislike the AMA, please read the following: http://www.amadirectlink.com/legisltn/positions/sound.asp

No worries.  I wasn't taking anything you were saying personally.  I am a little envious of your writing skills.  Hell, I couldn't have even spelled metaphorically, much less used it in a sentence that made sense. 

That anyone should see me as an aspirational figure disturbs me…

Ok, I'm really done now. 

[NFG]

I've said plenty about why loud pipes saving lives is a load of crap,

Not in this thread you haven't.  Going by what other people have said, by the same logic, helmets are a load of crap.  "If you're relying on a helmet to save your life, you've already lost."  You're not reading what I'm writing about the issue if you still disagree.  Again, different conversations. 

You're saying it's a safety issue (I, and others disagree) I'm saying it's illegal

That sort of blanket statement doesn't help this discussion, and I think you must know this.  MY pipes are NOT illegal, so off the bat you're wrong.  My pipes are LOUD.  No one here has advocated the use of illegal pipes.  We've all said we make an effort to be quiet when we're in environments that might desire such consideration.  Once again, you're responding to something that was not said in this thread.

If NYC style laws come to pass *everyone* will have quiet bikes and, by your logic, suffer for it.

Someone else already said this: It doesn't make sense to run quiet pipes NOW so that we're not forced to run quiet pipes LATER.  "I want loud pipes next year so I'll run quiet ones this year!"  Nonsense.

FWIW, I'm enjoying this conversation.  I'm not annoyed or frustrated that the other side doesn't agree with me.  I'm quite happy to be proven wrong, but the core tenets of my stance have yet to be assaulted, and so far the conversation's been a bit disjointed. 

Perhaps it's a result of the loud pipes, but it doesn't seem like everyone in this thread is listening.

[psycledelic]

Ok, I'm really done now. 

Yea Right.  Talk to you tomorrow!

[speedevil]

Perhaps it's a result of the loud pipes, but it doesn't seem like everyone in this thread is listening.

Well said.  Actually, it might just be selective hearing.  If someone agrees with you then they heard you, otherwise not.

But, no one has refuted the EPA regs that define the sound pressure levels for exhausts certified for on-street registered motorcycles - mainly because your motorcycle is subject to them  whether you like it or not (unless you're not in the US).  So, as EvilSteve said earlier, exhausts that are too loud are illegal and you know what that means.

Because the current laws aren't enforced, we will get more draconian laws that will be selectively enforced.  And exactly how is that better for motorcyclists?

[NFG]

But, no one has refuted the EPA regs that define the sound pressure levels for exhausts certified for on-street registered motorcycles - mainly because your motorcycle is subject to them  whether you like it or not (unless you're not in the US).  So, as EvilSteve said earlier, exhausts that are too loud are illegal and you know what that means.

That's a good point, but you're right: no one's refuting that.  There's no point, as you say it's the law whether you like it or not.  I think we can all agree on that: Too loud is illegal, and probably dumb as well.

Because the current laws aren't enforced, we will get more draconian laws that will be selectively enforced.  And exactly how is that better for motorcyclists?

Of course this is a rhetorical question.  =)

Perhaps we can summarize:

Loud is legal. 
Too loud is illegal.
Loud gets you noticed.
Being noticed is not enough: ride responsibly.
Loud sounds good.
Too loud is rude.
Cars want to kill riders.
Lawmakers hate bikes.

Can we all agree on these points?  Are we good?

Now let's just bring the conversation back to ME for a moment.  Me me me.  MY pipes are awesome.  MY pipes are loud.  MY pipes feel good when I rub them agains...  er...  That's probably illegal too, never mind.

[erik822]

Loud gets you noticed.

Yes, and No. Loud gets you noticed by people out walking, biking and eating at a cafe. Loud does not get you noticed by oncoming cars. And cars turing left in front of a biker are one the single biggest cause of rider fatalities.

Test it out for yourself. Next time you're on the freeway, in your cage, and see a Harley in the rearview, slowdown and let them pass. I will guarantee you that you won't hear jack s#!t of that exhaust until they are right next to you. Once they're in front of you, then you'll hear it.

And, then again, this is a Ducati forum. Where we ALL know it's loud clutches that save lives...

[wllgmr]

My termi's and my clutch are loud. I wouldnt have it any other way. I like it, and yes I also have a small wiener.

[donzo]

Is the horse dead yet, ladies?

[Doctor Woodrow]

No, no, no, I think I saw that microscopic piece of hoof over there wiggle a tiny bit about 20 minutes ago. We'd better be absolutely sure . . . get the napalm.

The Doc

[NFG]

Yes, and No. Loud gets you noticed by people out walking, biking and eating at a cafe. Loud does not get you noticed by oncoming cars. And cars turing left in front of a biker are one the single biggest cause of rider fatalities.

Ah, now this is a very good point.  You're certainly right, a car in this situation - especially with the windows closed - ain't hearin' nothin'.

And, then again, this is a Ducati forum. Where we ALL know it's loud clutches that save lives...

I have been wrong the whole time!  Quick, where can I order a nice orange pressure plate and an open cover?

[ducpainter]

Is the horse dead yet, ladies?

If not, I could put it out of it's misery.

[erik822]

Is the horse dead yet, ladies?

No, no, no, I think I saw that microscopic piece of hoof over there wiggle a tiny bit about 20 minutes ago.

Horse is dead. I took a swing at what I thought was left, but that piece of hoof was from the cow everyone started on after they were done with the horse.