1000cc in 2012

[Cider]

Seems kind of dumb to me, we're going to end up with some people running production motors and some not? How does that help the spectacle? How will that change the "800cc racing sucks" situation if the main teams are still running GP motors?

It's not clear to me how it helps the racing situation either, but I can see how it brings the cost-of-entry lower.  Maybe combined with a "satellite team championship" and a "satellite rider championship" within the existing series, it might make it more attractive to private teams.  After all, the WSBK rides are producing good horsepower, and they have limits on the kinds of modifications they can make.

[EvilSteve]

Poncharal says that the new motors would apply to everyone. I haven't seen any detail on the actual proposal however.

I think that we're then putting the horse before the cart. We're going to have a prototype series and run production motors? Yes there's more to a GP bike than the motor but why not let the manufacturers use GP as a test bed for their pre-production motors rather than restricting the transfer of technology as is currently the case?

I doubt there's going to be a split engine spec so whether or not someone could build a production based motor & be competitive is irrelevant. I'm not really sure how much money will be saved if everything but the cases are prototype.

I feel like I'm missing something here when I'm arguing against (it seems) the gm2s & derbys.

[gm2]

i'm basing most of my conjecture on this

http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/11/09/fim_president_world_superbike_contract_n.html

What this means in practice is that if a team turned up with a modified Yamaha R1, Honda CBR1000, MV Agusta F4 or BMW S1000RR, it would not be declared legal. However, if someone turned up with, say, a heavily modified engine based on Yamaha R1 crankcases in a Harris chassis, they could roll it out on track and compete. By the same token, if the teams turned up with a 2006 Yamaha M1, or the 2005 Ducati Desmosedici ridden by Loris Capirossi, they would also most likely be legal. The discussions at the moment are based around racing four-cylinder four-strokes, limiting the number of permitted cylinders in an attempt to cap costs.

[derby]

i love this:

However, if someone turned up with, say, a heavily modified engine based on Yamaha R1 crankcases in a Harris chassis, they could roll it out on track and compete.

that's exactly the bike peter clifford/wcm tried to run that was found "illegal."

[desmoquattro]

However, if someone turned up with, say, a heavily modified engine based on Yamaha R1 crankcases in a Harris chassis, they could roll it out on track and compete.

Don't know if I'd call it competing...going around the track, maybe.

[EvilSteve]

Fair enough.

What I'm saying is that the 2012 M1 motor would be (and even potentially the 2013 WSBK R1 motor and then) the 2014 R1 motor (for argument's sake) rather than the 2012 M1 motor being the Frankenstein 2012 R1 motor which is what's being proposed as far as I can tell.

Edit: A slightly different way of putting it would be to say that GP motors had to be pre-production rather than prototype.

As the rules stand (IIRC) manufacturers are forbidden from using any of the GP motor bits inside a production motor and vice versa. The net affect of this is that manufacturers have two different and for the most part unrelated engine development efforts going on and GP development can only be in theory used in production motorcycles. Combining this development cycle would lead to large (I would guess) cost savings on the part of the manufacturers.

[Speeddog]

A little fuel for the fire:

http://www.motomatters.com/news/2009/11/17/filippo_preziosi_on_the_new_ducati_engin.html

[EvilSteve]

Interesting. So they are planning on continuing prototype motors alongside "production" motors. Seems like a dumb idea to me. There are going to be some slow back markers!

[Jester]

Interesting. So they are planning on continuing prototype motors alongside "production" motors. Seems like a dumb idea to me. There are going to be some slow back markers!

We've already got some painfully slow backmarkers anyway.  Imagine the dogfights for the 15th-25th positions!  Bring on more bikes!   

[EvilSteve]

They could make the class really cheap if they let people race bicycles.

[zooom]

They could make the class really cheap if they let people race bicycles.

and interesting if the bicycles could be like this....

[EvilSteve]

Kawasaki could get back into GP too!

[desmoquattro]

and interesting if the bicycles could be like this....

Kawasaki could get back into GP too!

I'm tellin ya...Turbo 'Busas...with mandatory extended swingarms...it's the only logical answer.

[zooom]

I'm tellin ya...Turbo 'Busas...with mandatory extended swingarms...it's the only logical answer.

how many stages of nitrous are they allowed in that class and what capacity of injection?

[gm2]

Interesting. So they are planning on continuing prototype motors alongside "production" motors.

hasn't that been said/the topic of this thread for quite a while now?  yes, under the current proposed plan, there will be both.