Bread?

[DesmoLu]

Yes, I'm serious about the sourdough starter, but now I have to go check it .... 

Yup, it's fine.  One of the nice side benefits of living in the San Francisco Bay Area: good sourdough.

I'll happily send some to you, but you're in Texas, right? It won't last there, or if it does, it'll change. How desperate are you?  I'd be willing to try, if we can figure out how to ship it without it exploding. 

PM sent!

... and there are sooooo many nice benefits to living in SF!

[mstevens]

I'm betting the problem is the butter. Do you know what butter you use in pastry class? It is probably some premium brand artisan butter with a European style fat content. Then you go home, buy regular US-style butter with less fat and get all this unnecessary water in your dough. Try to find some local dairy or a premium brand of butter next time! Or, you can try to compensate by having a less wet dough to start but might take some experimentation.
Also, how do you proof at home vs class? That can make a difference.

These were my first croissants but I confess, I interned for one of the top pastry chefs in NYC had many great dough tips from her!

We bought the same butter used in class at King Arthur after the class and froze it. That might have caused some separation. We've also tried other high-butterfat butters - one of the advantages of living in New England is lots of little dairy farms specialty producers.

We use a proofing box with temperature monitoring, usually on a slate counter over the dishwasher. I'm pretty sure class used slightly damp towels, but our 219 year-old house can be pretty drafty.

I suspect it's a problem with how wet the dough is. It's been a couple of years since the last attempt. Maybe it's time for another go.

[somegirl]

Somegirl, you're in the right area for a good sourdough starter! I've got one that lives happily in the back of my fridge that I've had for years now. I'd be happy to share if you're interested.

IMHO, though, the sourdough starter is best used for sourdough pancakes. They cook up sort of like tangy blini. Add a little butter, little powdered sugar: 

Oooh, yes, I'd love a bit of sourdough starter and any care & feeding instructions you have and your pancake recipe too.  I'll send you a PM.

[AeroGeek]

I am pretty new to the world of bread making.  I bought a bread machine and love using it.  I have tried making french bread with several different recipes, but they all come out as very dense French bread.  Any suggestions as to what I need to do differently to get the lighter, airy french bread?

[mstevens]

I am pretty new to the world of bread making.  I bought a bread machine and love using it.  I have tried making french bread with several different recipes, but they all come out as very dense French bread.  Any suggestions as to what I need to do differently to get the lighter, airy french bread?

I'm not sure I agree that French bread is "light" or "airy." It should have a very elastic web of gluten and a large number of holes of greatly varying size. It's got a crust that's crackly on the outer layer and chewy on the inner.

High-gluten flour. Lots of kneading to develop gluten.

Recipe should only contain flour, water, a bit of salt, and yeast.

Correct formation of the baguette/ficelle/Parisien/whatever. You're likely trying to make baguettes. We weigh ours to get the right amount of dough, then form them to a standard length using the same method of forming the loaf each time. Baguettes start out skinnier than most people think.

Fairly high oven temperature (in order to get good "oven spring"), steam injection (or spritzing water into the oven) to retard crust formation.

Take a baguette class - it did wonders for our bread.

[somegirl]

I am pretty new to the world of bread making.  I bought a bread machine and love using it.  I have tried making french bread with several different recipes, but they all come out as very dense French bread.  Any suggestions as to what I need to do differently to get the lighter, airy french bread?

Here's some ideas as to what might be going wrong:
- Yeast is old - get fresh yeast and store it in the fridge.
- Temperature is too cold - make sure the water and other ingredients are at room temp before starting; and/or if your bread machine is in a cold location you might want to move it.
- Proportions of yeast, sugar, salt are a bit off - make sure you are measuring everything exactly (I'd suggest trying different recipes but it sounds like you already have).
- Make sure you are using the appropriate type of each ingredient (for example bread flour).  If it seems that the loaf is collapsing down you could add a bit of wheat gluten to help it hold its structure.
- Make sure the ingredients are added in the order specified by the manual for your bread machine and that the yeast is not mixed in prematurely if you are using a delay timer.

If all those seem to be fine then you might want to call up the manufacturer of your bread machine and see if they have any suggestions.

[AeroGeek]

I'm not sure I agree that French bread is "light" or "airy." It should have a very elastic web of gluten and a large number of holes of greatly varying size. It's got a crust that's crackly on the outer layer and chewy on the inner.

Agreed; I probably didn't explain my results very well.  My bread never has the holes in it.

Thanks for all of the tips, I will try some of them next time.

[The Architect]

So many good ideas!  Thanks folks. 

[thejsnide]

This would be what I do for a living... among other things as well.  I've been a pastry chef/baker for about 8 years now... so if anyone wants recipes, tips, etc. please let me know.

[corey]

one more idea, heard this one on a radio interview with a very popular restaurant owner... next time you go to bake a loaf of bread, instead of baking it, steam it.

[DesmoLu]

Are people happy with their bread machines? seems like it. My mom had one that I used when I was a kid and I was never happy with the texture but then again, maybe the technology has improved.

It just seems that kneading is too delicate to be left to most machines, plus if you do it by hand you get to really learn the intricacies of the relationship between kneading and forming gluten bonds!

Hmmm, maybe if this thread inspires me to making more bread my hands will get stronger again and that damn clutch on the S2R won't be so hard in traffic...

[duqette]

Are people happy with their bread machines? seems like it. My mom had one that I used when I was a kid and I was never happy with the texture but then again, maybe the technology has improved.

It just seems that kneading is too delicate to be left to most machines, plus if you do it by hand you get to really learn the intricacies of the relationship between kneading and forming gluten bonds!

Hmmm, maybe if this thread inspires me to making more bread my hands will get stronger again and that damn clutch on the S2R won't be so hard in traffic...

Somehow I never imagined put the words "kneading" and "delicate" together. 

I don't use a bread machine (no counter space, and I want something other than square bread), but I do use a Kitchen Aid mixer.

I like kneading .... it's primal, like pounding a piece of meat flat. 

[lauramonster]

Grandmom'd table is perfect for kneading bread.  She had it custome made so it's the perfect height.  She just never figured on having such a strong granddaughter.  I overknead the bread.  hockey pucks!!!

Bread machine is great for whole wheat pizza dough.  Fresh..... crunchy on the outside, chewy on the inside....MMMM!!

[The Architect]

Alright, I think I found the easiest to make, tastiest, and best crust bread.  You'll need a dutch oven, something like this

http://www.castironcookware.com/lodge-dutch-oven-loop.html

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/knead-not-sourdough-recipe/index.html

Very little kneading!

[Monster Dave]

Anyone tried Bacon Bread?