Electric Motorcycles: Why?

[ducatiz]

the bikes may seem like a silly waste of time by a bunch of green hippies now, but gurantee if they cracked that nut and you could have a 100% torque all the time, 180mph top speed, proper handling E-bike I think all the joking would die off pretty damn quick.

It would die off until the bike only goes one lap.. and then it would start up again, in earnest.

[xcaptainxbloodx]

It would die off until the bike only goes one lap.. and then it would start up again, in earnest.

which is what I meant by "if they cracked the nut"

you really think that they're never going to be dead even with a combustion motor?

[NorDog]

...the bikes may seem like a silly waste of time by a bunch of green hippies now...

 

I think they are a silly waste of time, and I am as far as one can be from being a green hippie.

[xcaptainxbloodx]

I think they are a silly waste of time, and I am as far as one can be from being a green hippie.

a waste of time done by some silly green hippies*

[ducatiz]

which is what I meant by "if they cracked the nut"

you really think that they're never going to be dead even with a combustion motor?

No.

Batteries are older than internal combustion and the last generations of batteries have been tiny increments.  Barring some miraculous discovery which somehow raises battery capacity by an order of magnitude without the concomitant weight, I don't see much changing.

Also, keep in mind battery heat.  They will ahve to figure a way to cool them as they are discharging.

I think it's more likely to see a hydrogen/electric hybrid -- no batteries, just a direct hydrogen-powered alternator to DC motor conversion

[PhilB]

No.

Batteries are older than internal combustion and the last generations of batteries have been tiny increments.  Barring some miraculous discovery which somehow raises battery capacity by an order of magnitude without the concomitant weight, I don't see much changing.

Also, keep in mind battery heat.  They will ahve to figure a way to cool them as they are discharging.

I think it's more likely to see a hydrogen/electric hybrid -- no batteries, just a direct hydrogen-powered alternator to DC motor conversion

This.  Batteries suck, and are a dead end technology.  Electric bikes (and cars, and anything else that takes real power and is mobile, as well as solar or wind power or any other electrical generation method that can't be operated at will) will be practical when we develop an energy storage technology that compares or exceeds hydrocarbon fuels in energy density.  And not before.

PhilB

[sgollapalle]

I'm thinking a small nuclear reactor should produce enough energy for the life of the bike...

[ducatiz]

Diesel locomotives have been hybrids for a long time.

Constant power generator going to an electric motor would be far more efficient than batteries.  Instead of stopping for 8 hours to recharge, you just swap a hydrogen cel.

[xcaptainxbloodx]

No.

Batteries are older than internal combustion and the last generations of batteries have been tiny increments.  Barring some miraculous discovery which somehow raises battery capacity by an order of magnitude without the concomitant weight, I don't see much changing.

Also, keep in mind battery heat.  They will ahve to figure a way to cool them as they are discharging.

I think it's more likely to see a hydrogen/electric hybrid -- no batteries, just a direct hydrogen-powered alternator to DC motor conversion

battery tech is getting better all the time. smaller and higher capacity units are continually being developed and methods for faster charging are also taking place. the first czsyz bike had 10kwh  with 98V+, the 2011 bike (not the one that just competed, the generation just before that) put out 12.5kwh with 330v, it also weighed about 50lbs less and made in the neighborhood of 4X as much hp (200+).

more interesting than that though, is that the 2010 had the same kwh and V but only made about 125hp. clearly they are making advancements on the entire drive system, not just its motors and batteries.

im not actually a huge e-bike fan, but I acknowledge the serious advancements that are going on with them. As a general principal I hate hearing people brand bash one bike over another. Similarly, I think its stupid to hate on a new drive system that has only recently been heavily developed for this application.  its in its infancy and rather than being excited by the possibility of a new toy, everyone wants to shit all over it for not being the same as the old toys.

you cant really say what its potential is until the development stagnates a bit.  when you stop seeing hp and battery life advance multiples, and when big competitors start dropping out then maybe you can claim its plateaued. but not only is that not happening, nobody is even mentioning it. every year its a new bike that totally eclipses the old one, with a new bike in development set to do the same thing next year.

[NorDog]

a waste of time done by some silly green hippies*

Oh okay, I get it.

[sgollapalle]

Lets say we are on a long ride on a hot summer day... A few hundred miles into the ride, you'd be spending atleast about 4 hrs [with all your gear on] to charge back to full capacity with a booster charger.. while everybody else would have gassed up in 2 min and get going 

[ducatiz]

battery tech is getting better all the time. smaller and higher capacity units are continually being developed and methods for faster charging are also taking place. the first czsyz bike had 10kwh  with 98V+, the 2011 bike (not the one that just competed, the generation just before that) put out 12.5kwh with 330v, it also weighed about 50lbs less and made in the neighborhood of 4X as much hp (200+).

more interesting than that though, is that the 2010 had the same kwh and V but only made about 125hp. clearly they are making advancements on the entire drive system, not just its motors and batteries.

im not actually a huge e-bike fan, but I acknowledge the serious advancements that are going on with them. As a general principal I hate hearing people brand bash one bike over another. Similarly, I think its stupid to hate on a new drive system that has only recently been heavily developed for this application.  its in its infancy and rather than being excited by the possibility of a new toy, everyone wants to shit all over it for not being the same as the old toys.

you cant really say what its potential is until the development stagnates a bit.  when you stop seeing hp and battery life advance multiples, and when big competitors start dropping out then maybe you can claim its plateaued. but not only is that not happening, nobody is even mentioning it. every year its a new bike that totally eclipses the old one, with a new bike in development set to do the same thing next year.

Development has totally stagnated.

How long does it take to recharge the batteries?

How much distance can you get out of a single charge?

It's great that they can swap out the electric motor for a different one at a different voltage and get higher speeds.  I bet if they try, they can get a 200 mph bike but it will only go 200 feet and then wait 8 hours to recharge for another 200 feet. (exaggerating of course)...

[xcaptainxbloodx]

Development has totally stagnated.

How long does it take to recharge the batteries?

How much distance can you get out of a single charge?

It's great that they can swap out the electric motor for a different one at a different voltage and get higher speeds.  I bet if they try, they can get a 200 mph bike but it will only go 200 feet and then wait 8 hours to recharge for another 200 feet. (exaggerating of course)...

again, its not simply "swapping out an electric motor" an entire proprietary liquid cooled drive system. its not as simple as plugging an electric motor to a stack of batteries and shoving it in a race chassis.

distance is affected by speed, the bikes developed for IOM are developed to do 37 3/4 miles, each year the speeds go up because the power is greater. if the speeds stayed the same they would go further.  the electric drag bikes do 200mph in about 7 seconds. 

The only production "sport" e-bike I know of is the brammo empulse R. its a naked bike with a top speed of about 100mph, battery recharge time about 3 1/2 hours, range ~120 miles. that is a very reasonable bike for 90% of commuting riders who want an electric bike for the sake of having an electric bike.  the cost is high (14-16k) and in no way can it compete with a combustion bike that costs even half as much.  but as a first wave of tech you rather expect the cost to be unreasonably high.  they also are not producing bikes on any sort of major scale or being backed by a major corporation like a contender from honda or kawasaki would be, and until that happens any comparison is going to be stacked against them. 

All in all I think its way to early to tell whats going to happen to these bikes.  I think we should all just be excited as riders to live in a time that allows us to get to see it all unfold whatever way it will. 

[ducatiz]

I think you've explained it well, the problems still remain.

The redesigns of the motors, use of intelligent power systems,  implementation of lighter materials, etc have permitted the batteries to be used better and derived higher speeds and some more distance.

But it still takes 8 (?) hours to charge them and are impractical.

[Raux]

The e-bike that's going to change the game will have inwheel motors that are regerative, a composite frame with a fuel cell and battery combo for on the go fueling and storage of regenerative braking.