Ben Spies Ducati Moto GP

[gm2]

*at least it was then... with dmg making changes to the "ama pro racing" class structure, rumors abound that zemke (32) and hayes (33) are both being talked to about world superbike rides for next season.

speaking of that, i think it's a funny (as in interesting/ironic) result of the intersection between the actual racing being so damn good in wsbk the last couple years and DMG coming in to completely F up the big bike class here that suddenly people all over the world are being very vocal about getting some americans into that series.  it's about time.

[gm2]

we're talking about the difference between "stupid money" and "insane money".

i don't necessarily disagree with you.  but when you take the whole mladin picture into account, leaving ama for some other series doesn't make any sense for him.

not only is he 'getting by' on his $7m+/yr, he's earned the right to make that much, have a family, travel the way he wants to.  part of the reason any of this is a topic is b/c he has an abrasive public personality.  but i don't think you can find a single person out there who'll accuse him of not riding to the maximum of his ability at all times.  fierce, fierce competitor.

[sqweak]

Maybe that's where the disconnect between what I'm saying and what Derby is hearing is.  I'm not even arguing that he should make the move.   I get that he's happy and has all the reasons in the world to stay in AMA, my point of contention was just that it was silly to imply that the paycut would have an impact on providing for his family.

[gm2]

maybe you just want the last word.   

[derby]

Maybe that's where the disconnect between what I'm saying and what Derby is hearing is.  I'm not even arguing that he should make the move.   I get that he's happy and has all the reasons in the world to stay in AMA, my point of contention was just that it was silly to imply that the paycut would have an impact on providing for his family.

that's not what i was saying.

look at it this way, mat took the ama superbike championship in 2000, defended it successfully in '01, and lost to nicky in '02... this was all on the 750cc superbike. he then came back on the 1000cc superbike and won '03, '05, and '05.

now, where would you have liked to see him leave the ama? surely not after losing to nicky in '02. maybe after he won his championship back in '03?

so let's say he went to world superbike in '04 and managed to secure the $1M salary given to a 4-time world champion and former motogp racer.

4 years in world superbike at $1M = $4M (if he managed to keep his ride)
4 years in ama superbikes at $7M = $28M

so a move to world superbikes virtually guarantees a $24M loss in future earnings.

now tell me, is that a smart move for a man supporting a wife and two kids? do you think that might have some impact on how he provides for his family?

would you take a $24M paycut?

[tufty]

would you take a $24M paycut?

Pfft! I'd never notice it. 

[darylbowden]

Gotta agree with Derb here. 

Why put yourself through a much more rigorous touring schedule and take a giant pay cut?  So you can compete with the rest of the guys who couldn't get it done in GP?  Hardly worth it.  WSBK is a great series, but let's face it - it's where racers go to die (and take giant pay cuts).  Honestly, Mat doesn't need the money, but he also doesn't need to go to WSBK (and with it lower his quality of life) so he can prove himself to a few keyboard racers.

[darylbowden]

and 24M?  I don't care how much $$$ you have, if you give up 24M (of a total 28M) over 5 years, you deserve to be kicked squarely in the nuts every day for the rest of your life.  That's like being demoted from CEO to secretary in terms of a pay cut.

[sqweak]

I've tried very specifically to explain the singular point that I'm discussing, and everyone is missing it.  I give up.

[gm2]

...a few keyboard racers.

yes, i'm laughing at myself here too.

[ducatania]

Come on now, firstly JT is less than 1/2 way through his rookie year straight from WSBK and he's in the top ten and all but one of the tracks so far are unfamiliar to him. As for Verm, Edwards and Hopper in all fairness it's not like they've been on truly competitive rides in the last couple of years either. I think it's way too early to rule out SBK as a good entry vehicle for GP.

Edwards wasn't on a competitive bike? make the beast with two backs, he was Rossi's teammate!  Not like he was riding for some second string satellite team.

[ducatania]

that's not what i was saying.

look at it this way, mat took the ama superbike championship in 2000, defended it successfully in '01, and lost to nicky in '02... this was all on the 750cc superbike. he then came back on the 1000cc superbike and won '03, '05, and '05.

now, where would you have liked to see him leave the ama? surely not after losing to nicky in '02. maybe after he won his championship back in '03?

so let's say he went to world superbike in '04 and managed to secure the $1M salary given to a 4-time world champion and former motogp racer.

4 years in world superbike at $1M = $4M (if he managed to keep his ride)
4 years in ama superbikes at $7M = $28M

so a move to world superbikes virtually guarantees a $24M loss in future earnings.

now tell me, is that a smart move for a man supporting a wife and two kids? do you think that might have some impact on how he provides for his family?

would you take a $24M paycut?

You say it's about the money, I still  say it's about the self respect. When you're out in front all the time just out for a Sunday ride like he usually was, a competitor would want to have some real competition again.  Again, he's just a big fish in a very small uncompetitive in the scheme of things pond.

[derby]

Edwards wasn't on a competitive bike? make the beast with two backs, he was Rossi's teammate!  Not like he was riding for some second string satellite team.

well, he did have his time on the aprilia cube after honda (reportedly) offered him a ride on "some second string satellite team." fwiw, haga didn't get along with that bike, either.

after roasting his cajones on that POS, colin got offered a ride on, you guessed it, a honda satellite team.

[derby]

You say it's about the money, I still  say it's about the self respect. When you're out in front all the time just out for a Sunday ride like he usually was, a competitor would want to have some real competition again.  Again, he's just a big fish in a very small uncompetitive in the scheme of things pond.

so you're saying you'd take the $24M paycut?

fwiw, mat has competition. yeah, it's not a whole field of competitors, but spies has taken the championship from him two years in a row and has got the measure of him so far this year. mat has repeatedly said that if it wasn't for ben, he would've retired years ago. he's out once ben leaves.

[Triple J]

and 24M?  I don't care how much $$$ you have, if you give up 24M (of a total 28M) over 5 years, you deserve to be kicked squarely in the nuts every day for the rest of your life. 

+1  Gotta agree with Derby's line of reasoning.  I'd happily kick ass in AMA against lesser competition for an extra $24M, rather then move to WSBK.  That's a no brainer...I don't care how competitive you are.