After market Steering Dampers...worth the money?

[tonymtber]

OK....nice day for a ride today [moto]....cruising along into a big right hand sweeper & half way around hit a off camber bump.  Got the wobbles big time but luckily it didn't turn into a big tank slapper...that would have really ruined my day.

Seriously though, would a steering damper do much to stop this or am I over reacting after  a big moment?  I've never had a bike with one & really never had the need.

Any thoughts?  Are there any good or bad ones out there?

Cheers
Tony

[FIFO]

Check this thread out was reading it last week, and now seriously thinking of getting one soon.
Big bucks though :'(

http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=33243.30

[mattyvas]

I can't say I've had a tank slapper on the road but I've had a few track ones.
I'm not sure if a steering damper would have helped but relaxing on the bars and letting the bike right itself
is what did the trick each time.

I know Vince had a damper on the Monster for a while but found he couldn't really feel the difference.

That situation on the road I can't say what I would have done, usually your instinct is to hold on tight
when it should be the opposite.
Same as running wide, usually the first thing you want to do is back off but that just makes the bike
slow down and want to go upright and straighten.

My 2c's on it anyways.

Dead Bike
Matty...

[tonymtber]

I can't say I've had a tank slapper on the road but I've had a few track ones.
I'm not sure if a steering damper would have helped but relaxing on the bars and letting the bike right itself
is what did the trick each time.

Hey I was very relaxed....until it hit....then the heart rate was up a bit 

Thanks for that....they certainly are not cheap (what bike bits aren't) & the big question is will it make any difference?
I've got other things that I want to buy for the bike

Cheers

[mattyvas]

Very true Tony I'm sure you were well relaxed until the pucker moment.
I guess you have to ask yourself how many times has this happened and is it worth forking out $$$
for an item of this kind.

If you go by numbers, I haven't seen many Monster with dampers fitted
not even mine when they were/are sold new.

[heatherp]

Never had this problem with my Duc only with other bikes.  My Duc seems to be extremely stable even on Victoria's crap rural roads. Having had a whiplash injury from riding over a bad surface I do tend to pay a lot of attention to the road surfaces these days.  In regards to the money spending priority list, considering it's only happened the once so far what's the likelihood of it happening frequently? 

[Betty]

I haven't had a look at the thread Rob linked above but there is some good debate in various threads.

I have considered a damper a number of times but, yeah, normally baulk at the price. Prices can range quite a bit ... and I really don't like the look of the 'handbag snatching' variety on a Monster (but there are other, often more expensive, options available).

I was probably closest to getting one before I got my suspension sorted ... that made a huge difference to handling and it was the vagueness when cornering that was most concerning hence the consideration of the damper - this by the way is the wrong reason to buy a damper. I have just never thought I ride hard enough to "need" a damper.

But the general thinking seems to be that it is a bit like insurance, you don't need it until you need it. I am struggling to activate the memory cells this morning but it also depends on the type of damper (which you can probably interpret as how much you are willing to pay). I don't remember all the techincal stuff but I think they were suggesting that more progressive (speed sensitive) dampers are the way to go.

By this I don't mean the bike's speed but the steering speed ... essential it is another suspension element controlling compression and rebound on your steering movement. Apparently a good damper set up properly for street riding will not be noticeable most of the time ... but if there is a violent steering movement it does its job - maybe why Vince didn't notice any difference

The cyncis view would be that if it fixes problems without me knowing, how do I know it has done its job and whether the expense is justified.

Oh yeah and I'd better insert my usual 'I don't know what the hell I am talking about' disclaimer.

[loony888]

firstly, you can usually disregard bettys disclaimer, and as far as a damper goes, i have one on my monster and wouldn't be without it. yes, fitting a damper to mask handling quirks is the wrong way to sort the bike, get it set up first, not only will you be faster and safer but you will enjoy the ride more and be a lot less tired at the end of it. the main reason i have mine is because with big wide bars and no fairing to speak of my arms and body are a sail and through fast bends my input at the bars is affected by the wind pressure. the damper nullifies this completely depending on the setting, i usually pootle around on 2 or 3 but when i'm off for a serious blast i set it at 5 or 6 and once rolling i can't tell the difference. yes, they are expensive but compared to the excess on your insurance policy and possible time off work from a spill due to a tankslapper causing a fall it's peanuts.
incidentally, tankslappers are nasty, whatever direction you are going when it happens is the direction you go until it's under control, through a corner that could be into on coming traffic or into a ditch. the big bars make it easier to wrestle back into shape than a sports bike with clip ons but you still travel about 20 metres a second at 80kph so it's easy to see why things seem to happen very quickly when you've lost control, cause THEY DO!.
take care.

paul.

[signora monster]

My brother put one on his Honda CBR600F4i and he noted a big improvement. He has a very aggressive riding style and likes to pop the odd wheelie. Helps in the wheelie department too apparently .
I guess different bikes will have different requirements.

[tonymtber]

Thanks everyone for their comments.

The bend where it happened is not far from my place so I ride it a lot.  I guess maybe I was pushing a bit hard (probably hard than I should have?), & it could be that I just happened to hit the bump at the right angle (just my luck).

Rather than spending money on the damper, maybe I should look at doing some fine tuning on the suspension....then I can justify improving my bike handling skills to match the better ride & handling.

Hey Betty, what did you do you sort your suspension out?  My bike is all stock in the suspension area, but it certainly feels like I could stiffen the front end up a bit.  I was thinking of putting a heavier oil in the forks, but I wasn't sure how hard they are to work on.

Cheers
Tony

[loony888]

they're easy enough to work on, start with setting the ride height, then set the sag front and rear, then the loaded sag. from there adjust compression to get the front and rear compressing evenly by pushing down on the seat sharply while a mate holds the bike upright. from there ride it, make small adjustments based on the same stretch of road and the same speed through it. compression is adjusted at the bottom of the fork legs and the bottom of the rear shock, both with a flat blade screwdriver in most cases. rebound is adjusted on the top of the fork legs with a flat blade and on the rear with either a flat blade or a click wheel knob. preload is adjusted with a spanner on the hex at the top of each fork leg, measured by turns out to lessen, for small changes count the turns, for large changes (not usually necessary) count the exposed rings. on the rear the preload is adjusted by two collars on top of the spring, undo the top locking collar adjust the bottom one against the spring then lock the top collar down onto it.

make small incremental changes and MAKE NOTES! start with noting what you have to begin with then note each change, it's a bit laborious but it saves you getting lost. Try and work with what you have before changing oil or valve kits etc unless you are going to a suspension expert who has a known "recipe" to sort the handling of your bike for what you want to use it for, and remember your body weight can make up around a third of the rolling mass so your riding weight will need to be taken into account if you get a shop to set it up for you.
cheers,
paul.

[Betty]

Hey Betty, what did you do you sort your suspension out?  My bike is all stock in the suspension area, but it certainly feels like I could stiffen the front end up a bit.  I was thinking of putting a heavier oil in the forks, but I wasn't sure how hard they are to work on.

Cheers
Tony

Well I stand by my earlier comment that I don't know what the hell I am talking about ... so I had a suspension guru change things for me. But this involved a new rear shock and cartridge kit for the forks ... not the most affordable thing to do (makes a steering damper seem cheap).

As usual I would say what Loony has stated is correct, but I believe that you have a 695 (if memory serves me correctly) which means non-adjustable forks and barely adjustable shock. This would obviously limit the 'fiddling' you can do to probably just preload and rebound(?) on the shock in standard form.

There are a few threads around talking about this type of thing as it generally doesn't take long for people to start struggling with the non-adjustable suspension, here is an Ozmo example:

http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=30994.0

Have a look around and see what you think if you have any other questions we will try to help.

[tonymtber]

Thanks Betty,

Yes the 695 has no adjustments on the forks & only the preload & rebound on the shock (see you do know what your talking about).

I'm going to let the Ducati dealer have a look at the forks, as I dont think one cartridge is working correctly....there is a bit of restriction in the movement on the bottom of the stroke which doesn't feel right (generally the stroke is smooth up until the last 30%...almost feels like there is some air bubbles in the oil as it passes through the internal valves).  It might be an issue which is probably a good place to start.

Thanks heaps for the help guys (& girls)
Cheers

[loony888]

but I believe that you have a 695 (if memory serves me correctly) which means non-adjustable forks and barely adjustable shock. This would obviously limit the 'fiddling' you can do to probably just preload and rebound(?) on the shock in standard form.

bugger! that kinda limits what you can do to set it up then. sorry mate, didn't know yours was unadjustable.

paul.

[tonymtber]

Yeah its a bit of a bugger.....I think my forks on my mountain bike have more adjustments!

I suppose the other option is to upgrade the bike?  Anyone have an S4R they wanna sell?