S2r800 – DP ECU… or not?

[Mr.S2R]

Neville Lush Racing at Victor Harbor.

Ahh yes I have heard of him in the past racing circles I have been in (dirt and road).  There is meant to be another excellent Ducati mechanic down that way - ex Da Vanti racing if the rumours I heard are correct.

[tonymtber]

Ahh yes I have heard of him in the past racing circles I have been in (dirt and road).  There is meant to be another excellent Ducati mechanic down that way - ex Da Vanti racing if the rumours I heard are correct.

Apparently alot of the local bike dealers dont like him....they want to sell their performance ECU's etc, & he has been quite successful in remapping ECU's for various makes & models.....& hopefully Ducati's soon

[loony888]

and just to dispel another one of your misguided beliefs, i get nothing for free.. i pay for my products, and i work hard to land them here and sell them at a competitive price, so you need to come down off your high horse and learn a few things too.. thanks

sorry, cost price then. and i think you will find that EVERYBODY here works hard for what they have, and as for being on my high horse, i wasn't, but i am now.
firstly, do you even own a monster? this is ducatimonsterforum, secondly do you pay the board to advertise here? or are you freeloading to sell your wares? thirdly, i wouldn't need to correct you with my so called "misguided beliefs" if you were more accurate about your competitions product instead of just rubbishing something you can't compete with equally.
you have a business flogging bike stuff, big deal, there's lots of $2 fly by night business' out there, just cause you post something on a forum doesn't make it gospel, and frankly, you don't credit members here with the intelligence they deserve. i may be one of the few questioning your sales pitch but there are plenty of very savvy guys and girls here so get used to your dribble being questioned, especially seeing as you are not "speaking lightly".
now i'll climb off my high horse.
paul.

[ozducati]

sorry, cost price then. and i think you will find that EVERYBODY here works hard for what they have, and as for being on my high horse, i wasn't, but i am now.
firstly, do you even own a monster? this is ducatimonsterforum, secondly do you pay the board to advertise here? or are you freeloading to sell your wares? thirdly, i wouldn't need to correct you with my so called "misguided beliefs" if you were more accurate about your competitions product instead of just rubbishing something you can't compete with equally.
you have a business flogging bike stuff, big deal, there's lots of $2 fly by night business' out there, just cause you post something on a forum doesn't make it gospel, and frankly, you don't credit members here with the intelligence they deserve. i may be one of the few questioning your sales pitch but there are plenty of very savvy guys and girls here so get used to your dribble being questioned, especially seeing as you are not "speaking lightly".
now i'll climb off my high horse.
paul.

Paul, i don't own a monster, BUT, i do pay money to be a sponsor here, and become a sponsor at the suggestion of a few of the members here, as our business focus's mainly on Ducati's and high quality predominately Italian made products, and they thought the members would benefit from products and services.

I have not rubbished anything, only explained exactly how each works and what the pitfalls are, i have not attacked your person, only asked you to come down off your high horse, yet you call me a $2 fly by night business.. which is extremely offensive, am sure you would not like being labelled the same in whatever you do??

Finally, as far as crediting other members with the intelligence they deserve, i have not attacked anyone intelligence, or their credibility.. you might try doing the same.

I have no wish to continue this debate, and apologise to Brett and others if i have offended anyone. If anyone has any further questions about our products discussed, please PM me or send me an email.

[Betty]

Ozducati,

I am not trying to argue (honestly despite what it may seem) but I would like to offer a little context.

Firstly we have never had a local sponsor so I think it is all a bit foreign to us in Ozmo-land. In the past whenever somebody has offered advice or recommendations it because of the personal experiences they have had and there is no economic benefit in sharing that informatin or making those recommendations. So when somebody new comes along (such as yourself) peddling their wares (regardless of the motives, intentions or relative soundness of the advice) you may just have to expect a little cynicism.

Our old home (the other board) turned to shit overnight when advertising took over ... most members jumped ship due to the meddling of the new owners in the pursuit of the mighty dollar. The community voted with their feet. I am not saying that is what has happened here but we may be a little sensitive and we may all need to find the right balance.

If you are looking for a bit of genuine feedback I'll offer some below but you may have to realise that some people will always speak there mind and others will quietly absorb all the information and make up their own mind ... but generally people will always be a bit cynical of somebody trying to sell something ... its a sign of the times unfortunately not necessarily a reflection of you or your business specifically.

As for the examples, these are my personal observations of a couple of recent threads:

. Caz posted a thread specifically asking about a source for Rizoma rearsets. The first response (from you) was suggesting he look at a product you sell with abosolutely no reference to the question he asked (instant cynicism from the casual observer). Guessing that adjustability was something Caz was after (as the Rizoma rearsets are known for this) I asked the question about the rearsets you were selling ... and adjustability was the only thing I specifically mentioned. You then posted a lengthy reply about the quality of the product how you met this guy and that guy and did not respond to the question I asked which may have put your product on an even playing field with the product originally sought. All I was seeing was marketing unfortunately.

. Similar things have happened in this thread. Again you were first off the line promoting one of your products and something which the original poster had not mentioned ... he was looking at three options. Of course there is nothing wrong with offering alternatives but it certainly didn't come across as a balanced response when the two cheapest options he was considering were not even mentioned. It was stated that your offer was a better alternative to the most expensive one ... and this is probably when people have started to ask aome questions. You started off saying how the unit was tweakable and could be tuned to an individual bike but insisting it was superior to other options because it didn't require dyno tuning. My repeated query of this specific point kept going unanswered ... and the cynicism kept growing.

. You have stated that you have not rubbished other products but that really comes down to an individuals viewpoint. It would seem that you have not given them full credit and overstated their price (called by a couple of members) may not be rubbishing but it is certainly not balanced

. One other thing worth realising is that people have probably not heard of the Pro-tune setup. If you remember what I said earlier about the 'word of mouth' recommendations - a new product being promoted by a commercial entity should, and I would expect to, come under a whole heap of scrutiny ... especially something that is playing with the electronics and fuel management of our bikes. Anybody that remembers the debacle that was the Rapid Bike modules will know where I am coming from (fried ECUs, lost mapping data, etc) and that product was also sold as the best thing since sliced bread, offers so much more than the PCs, etc, etc ... a lot of people were bady hurt over that one.

I will close off by saying I ws genuinely interested in the product but that seems to have become a side issue now and thanks for mentionng the FatDuc ... one that I had forgotten about, but has often been mentioned around here (or even its cheaper copy) as the 'best bang for buck'.

Apologies if that became a little off topic, but it is related and may add a different perspective to all that came before it.

[Spider]

you reckon it's a bit hot in here right now?

mate, you should see the arguments in the famous Ducati Monster Blonde vs Brunette vs Redhead thread.....legendary.





now, I'm not a moderator....but people...settle down! we are all trying to help, no need to call into account other peoples characteristics and such.

and...Paul, you need to go lightly on the 'do you even own a monster' stuff....this is a public forum not a private club and their are people on who ride other things, don't ride anything yet or previously had a monster and that kind of comment is a bit out of line....we'd still want you around if you sold the monster and kept the 888  

(bloody hell, now I'm sitting on my HIGH horse!!!)

[Spider]

interesting little piece of knowledge (from the manufactorers) they actually make a PC3 for the s2r800....which means it works with the stock ECU and doesn't have limitations.

the PC3 for the SSS generation of Monsters got strange....most people needed the DP ECU to allow the piggy-backing computer to alter A/F levels otherwise it was above a certain RPM range (5250 for the s4r is an example ) and some systems couldn't get them to work well.

For example you can't use a PC3 for a stock s2r1000....add the dp ecu (expensive!) and you can from my readings (will be able to confirm this with first hand within weeks)

[Betty]

Spider, from my readings and what you are saying above ... I think sometimes the optimal solution was a DP ECU and a PC3 ... neither was quite there on their own ... and obviously dyno time to get it all just right.

That was when the Nemesis (I think it was) was being touted as THE all in solution. Of course all my (limited) knowledge is anecdotal from picking up bits and pieces of what I have read ... still don't actually understand any of it.

Perhaps Ozducati's products ARE the answer to all of your dreams.

[ozducati]

Guys n Gals, as a bike owner myself and having had a good number of Ducati's, i have had a lot of experience in tuning bikes.. and probably like a lot of you, not always wanted to toe the "company line" and just simply buy Termignoni off the shelf with a DP ECU.. even though a lot of the time it is a simple and easy solution.. I have been through every option discussed in this thread.. (including a "Rapid" module and dyno tuning) i have done  a lot of research on exhaust and fuelling over the years, and although i may be seen as simply "peddling my wares" but there is a reason I sell the products i do..
When i set out to start this business, i went after certain products that were of particularly high quality, or were designed to be a cost effective solution yet were still of quality that i would install on my bike, as i am sure most you share the same passion/obsessions..  I also spent a week in Milan at EICMA meeting with suppliers and potential suppliers, trying to find the latest and best products to bring to Australia, and we have invested a substantial sum of money in this business and bringing stock in as well.. I introduced myself in the intro thread as a new forum sponsor, and also offered members here discounts, which is still on offer... If you have any further questions on this subject, or any other products please PM or email me and i will answer your questions.

so in future i will be mindful as to how i offer advice, and will keep my product peddling to a minimum..

[brimo]

PC3: imported $350
map/dyno (individual cylinders) $330
install (one with a bit of a look can do this!) $80

PC3 price is from my experience (on the 3rd one), map & install prices are from a dynojet expert down here (they are 18 months old)

That price is about right, installed one on my S2R 800 (2006) took about an hour to install (but I'm an experienced wire jerker)
Had it dynotuned and it's a whole new bike.
(BTW I Can email anyone my map if they want, mine is set up for open airbox, stock exhaust with cored mufflers.)

[FIFO]

   

    I was looking at one of these Dobeck Power Card $269 US

   http://www.desmotimes.com/

  I need to get the bike checked  first not to sure what ecu is in it.
  But i think the dp ecu was swaped.
 Not after more power, but tuned within reasonable parameters for an open air box and  slip on termis.

   

[brad black]

i might as well slide in some non sponsered sideways promotion here.

my report on s2r800 with mods like this.  start reading about half way thru for std ecu with exhaust and air filter mods - http://www.bikeboy.org/s2rcateliminator.html

i don't believe that the air filter has more effect on mixture than mufflers, certainly not on 800 anyway.

this one has some info on arrow exhaust only - http://www.bikeboy.org/s2rmonsterarrow.html

about the only advanatge the dobeck has is simplicity, which means less money to tune.  pc3 will give a very good result when tuned well, emphasis there on the tuner really.  dp ecu again depends on how well they did it.  most late dp stuff is pretty good, some early dp stuff was crap.  but there's no dp ecu maps for s2r monster with full headers, just udders and slip ons.

the s2r800 is open loop, so no need for a dp ecu to then tune over.  bikes that are closed loop - s2r1000, etc, need an open loop ecu for the pc3 to work as desired, otherwise they will self tune back at lower rpm and throttle via the lambda sensor feedback.  fatduc can help overcome that, no experience with how stable it is over long time frames, etc.

no experience with pro tune.  would like to know how it is "tweaked" and how much access there is to what changes have been made.

[mattyvas]

Well said Spider.

We are self moderated here peoples and throwing comments like the ones in this thread around are very un-becoming.
I know Ozducati personally and he was one of the first people I went to when my bike issues came about.

I won't say any more as Spider has covered it well.

Back to helping each other please.

[loony888]

now, I'm not a moderator....but people...settle down! we are all trying to help, no need to call into account other peoples characteristics and such.

and...Paul, you need to go lightly on the 'do you even own a monster' stuff....this is a public forum not a private club and their are people on who ride other things, don't ride anything yet or previously had a monster and that kind of comment is a bit out of line....we'd still want you around if you sold the monster and kept the 888 

(bloody hell, now I'm sitting on my HIGH horse!!!)

if i sold my monster i would have at least owned one, i don't begrudge anyone being here, worth remembering though that this public forum is supposed to be a place where people who share a similar interest, that being an interest in ducati monsters can exchange ideas, socialise and generally help each other with minor/major problems etc. sure there are people here who used to own one and others who are working towards buying their dream bike, there's others who lurk and occasionally ask info when for example they're looking to buy one, all very welcome, happy to assist anyway i can just as nearly everyone in the ozmonster community is, there's a wealth of experience here to plunder. BUT, call me cynical, i probably am, it shits me to tears when a business signs up as a member or sponsor even and does little except plug what he sells then that's just self serving. this is all just my opinion and in the big scheme of things counts for naught, but misinformation about products that are competition shows either a lack of professionalism or a lack of understanding, quoting overinflated prices willynilly is a good example, and i don't think, sponsor or not, business should masquerade as members purely to turn a profit.

There are exceptions, take Brad for example, he's not a sponsor, but contributes far more in the way of knowledge, experience and offers real world hands on tips and how to's, not to mention his performance pages. All done while he was an employee, putting in the extra hours recording information for his records and pages, helping out here and other forums with the kind of experienced help that normally cost's per hour. Since he's started his own shop i'm sure his following has grown to the point he is far too busy to be posting here, but he still contributes, he is a highly valued member and i for one want to say thanks. yes, we've had our differences but his help and experience has always been accurate, clear, and non ambiguous, am i rambling yet? oh well, where was i? oh yes, takes more than being here five minutes, a couple of fancy new bikes and a forum discount to convince me of your credentials.

paul.
p.s, If my condescending tone from my high horse offends anyone i apologise, but normally when the waft of bullshit is too heavy to handle in a shop i leave, i like it here, i like the members i associate with and like god botherers and spammers who knock on my door or fill my e-mail with promises and half truths i for one could do without a sales pitch where i come to relax, socialise and spend some of my free time.

[ollie]

slightly off topic, but still sort of related.

I'm keen to ditch the airbox and Breatherbox from my 620 and go with pod filters, really just for aesthetics - I love the uncluttered look of an aircooled naked engine fitted with pod filters.

Do I need to get a PC3 sort the fuel/air balance?, Is there even a PC3 available for a 620?