Would you ever buy an electric car?

[Vindingo]

why is this? do you work more than 50 miles away?

Yeah, 16 hours 110 v or 8 220v charging time. or quick charge is 28 minutes to 80% full. They are planning on charging stations all over, at malls, work places etc.

you can travel 100 miles on a typical normal commute. more people inside reduces this, as does AC and other things.

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What is a typical normal commute?  No stop and go traffic, no hills, no detours?  This 100 miles realistically turns to 75mi, maybe less... Who doesn't listen to the radio, or have the AC on? Cut the miles some more...  

I'm at about 65 mi a day round trip. Most days of the week I put in 12hrs outside of the house.  That gives me 12 hours to charge my car.  I don't have 220 anywhere near the front of the house, and based on the electricians thread, it will cost me about $25,000 to get service to the front of the house.  

So on the 110V I have, I'm out of luck...

The "planned" stations won't help much when you are stranded come April, and the car is launched before the infrastructure is in place.  As for sitting at an electric pump for 30 min... no thanks.    

[Vindingo]

A couple of questions I never hear in "electric car" discussions are, what's the battery life, and what's the battery replacement cost?

Those questions are big ones!  The battery on my Hilti impact gun is like $100 for a tiny little 14.4v.  I'm guessing to replace these bad boys you are looking into the thousands. 

I know that excessive heat and improper recharging cycles (like recharging them before they are low) drastically reduce battery life.  Ever been in a car that doesn't get really hot sitting in the summer sun?

[il d00d]

Sure would.  Gas is cheap today, but I think it is safe to assume increases as the Chinese buy more cars, and the world recovers from economic catastrophe.

But even if the break-even point is not in the next five years, I would still rather spend more on car and less on oil.  I personally hate waste, and being slightly more ecological*, and decreasing oil imports would make it worth it to me.  I am told it also makes your farts smell terrific.

As for the *best* time to buy an electric, I don't think even the newest gen of hybrid or plug-ins are getting beyond the early-adopter generation in terms of utility.  At least for everybody.  It is clear that we are not going to adapt our driving habits to electric cars, so it will take a little while to make electric cars more like ICE cars.


*I know most of our oil comes from North America, and that much of our grid is powered by coal.  I also know that there is a net decrease in the carbon produced in building and operating an electric or hybrid compared to an ICE car.  Electric cars are not a magical solution to our political, energy or environmental problems but they are a step in the right direction.

[Turf]

it depends on where the electricity comes from.

am i buying something that will still pollute because of the extra demand put on powerplants or will i be able to use something much cleaner to recharge the car?

That argument always bothered me, it seems like a huge cop out. Yea the majority of the energy will come from a coal plant. Even so the car itself isn't polluting as an internal combustion engine would. In any event and most importantly it's a step in the right direction.

I won't buy one, bike only 

[NorDog]

That argument always bothered me, it seems like a huge cop out. Yea the majority of the energy will come from a coal plant. Even so the car itself isn't polluting as an internal combustion engine would. In any event and most importantly it's a step in the right direction.

I won't buy one, bike only 

Now that's the cop out.  One could just as easily and accurately say that the internal combustion engine isn't polluting as an electric car does by proxy via a coal fired power plant.

Then there's the land fill issue to deal with.  As all those thousands and thousands of high tech batteries exceed their life span, they gotta go somewhere.

And what about the raw materials needed for those batteries?  Just exactly how plentiful are they?  Lithium?  What else is used for these?  How is supply and demand going to skyrocket the price of the batteries because of the limited availability of the raw materials?

And what about the inertia of all those batteries in a collision?  Will the deliberately lightweight chassis of the electric car hold up and give any amount of protection?

[DucatiTorrey]

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it will cost me about $25,000 to get service to the front of the house.  

right...

[acalles]

electric car?

make the beast with two backsing joke.

you think gas is going to be hard to get..

wait till every one wants lithium batteries, not to mention the number of batteries each one of these things is gonna take.

Diesel technologies will be the future. you can burn pretty much any hydrocarbon in them, you can obtain the hydrocarbons threw a number of ways, coil oil, regular oil, bio, or algae.

these will all work into our existing infrastructure. I think we'll see a lot of algae fuel development in the future.

[Turf]

it's a step in the right direction.

That's my main point, I'm not pro electric cars as i think it's the wrong avenue to go down. Getting the company's to focus more seriously on viable alternative methods of propulsion instead of pumping out more F-150's. We find something better than oil and go with that. The stone age didn't end because they ran out of rocks.

[Drjones]

For us, its an environmental thing, not money. The Leaf is something like 90% recyclable post use toowhere did you read this? I thought they hadn't released the price yet.
Yeah, Jay Leno (screw him though, I'm with COCO) said it best, he's more green driving huge V8's since they are over 30 40 50 years old, most people replace cars waaaay too fast

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/tag/2010-nissan-leaf

[Triple J]

Now that's the cop out.  One could just as easily and accurately say that the internal combustion engine isn't polluting as an electric car does by proxy via a coal fired power plant.

You can easliy say it, but I'm not sure about accurately. See my point source post above. Also...not every market gets their electricity from coal. Overall I find it very hard to believe that electric cars wouldn't be an improvement.

Less reliance on foreign oil is alo an issue. Coal fired power plants may not be all that great...but we have LOTS of coal in the US.

Then there's the land fill issue to deal with.  As all those thousands and thousands of high tech batteries exceed their life span, they gotta go somewhere.

Plenty of space. The landfill space issue, in the US anyway, is blown out of proportion. We have so much room that we take other countries garbage for a fee. There may be an issue with toxicity from burying old batteries though...at least if they contain any sort of acid which may leak. That could lead to huge problems.

And what about the raw materials needed for those batteries?  Just exactly how plentiful are they?  Lithium?  What else is used for these?  How is supply and demand going to skyrocket the price of the batteries because of the limited availability of the raw materials?

Good point...will be interesting to see if electric cars become more popular. I'm not sure of the raw material reserves in existence for the battery materials though. There may be more than enough that this won't be an issue...

And what about the inertia of all those batteries in a collision?  Will the deliberately lightweight chassis of the electric car hold up and give any amount of protection?

Sure it will. Lightweight sports car chassis seem to hold massive IC engines just fine.

[NorDog]

You can easliy say it, but I'm not sure about accurately. See my point source post above. Also...not every market gets their electricity from coal. Overall I find it very hard to believe that electric cars wouldn't be an improvement.

Less reliance on foreign oil is alo an issue. Coal fired power plants may not be all that great...but we have LOTS of coal in the US.

Plenty of space. The landfill space issue, in the US anyway, is blown out of proportion. We have so much room that we take other countries garbage for a fee. There may be an issue with toxicity from burying old batteries though...at least if they contain any sort of acid which may leak. That could lead to huge problems.

Good point...will be interesting to see if electric cars become more popular. I'm not sure of the raw material reserves in existence for the battery materials though. There may be more than enough that this won't be an issue...

Sure it will. Lightweight sports car chassis seem to hold massive IC engines just fine.

TripleJ, I must confess to being a bit of a devil's advocate here.  I really don't care about the environmental "issues" to much (they're 90% BS), but those harping about carbon footprints and such do.

I do think there will be supply and demand problems with the batteries though.  Or, at least there would be if there were ever a real shift in demand for these cars over IC engines.

[superjohn]

With the current crop of batteries, there's going to be issues with range, capacity, etc. However, there's a whole new crop of batteries being worked on that will  be lighter and hold more. It's inevitable. Just like no one in 1970 thought you'd ever see 25MPG and 400HP at the same time.

Gasoline is really difficult to replace. It's such an ideal fuel for vehicles since it's liquid and easy to transport and distribute. It's got a huge amount of energy for it's given mass and volume, and it's reasonably volatile so that energy is easily extracted. However, we use petroleum for a LOT of stuff for which there is no alternative so it behooves society to look for something better.

In all reality, I would expect that to be some form of liquid artificial hydrocarbon running in an evolution of the internal combustion engine with advanced battery technology enabling electric operation when that's optimal. Either that, or we'll blow everything up and ride mutant cockroaches. Whichever.

[Triple J]

I really don't care about the environmental "issues" to much (they're 90% BS), but those harping about carbon footprints and such do.

Ya, my bigger concern is just running out of oil...or supply getting low enough that it becomes extremely expensive, and we start fighting over it more than we do already. Almost everything is touched by oil in some fashion. Any environmental concerns are secondary to this IMO.

[herm]

others have touched on this, but my issue with electric cars is where the electricity comes from.
unless you are one of the few lucky enough to have hydroelectric generation, the emissions are just being transfered to another part of town.

I would be far more interested in electric cars if they were viable with some type of renewable energy source....but thats not the case.

maybe some day..

[Goat_Herder]

yah, I think the electric cars are definitely a step toward the right direction.  It's not about the saving in gas making up the higher purchase price.  it's about burning less of the finite oil reserve we have on earth.  It may be more expensive right now to go to an electric car.  But unless we start on that, 10-20 years down the road, gas will be so expensive that you have no choice but to ride the bicycle.  It would be too late then.

Sure, I think a lot of the environment talk is over-reacting.  But it's a known fact that oil supply is running low and we are not burning any less gas, last time I checked.