Mugello GP Spoiler

[gm2]

Then run with it. Nothing wrong with healthy discussion and debate. We all have our favorite riders. Last year, mine gave up on his season and still gave a pretty good show. Fact is, I don't care who is winning as long as the racing is good. I would rather see my racer lose in a battle of 4 or 5 all the way to the finish rather than seeing one person dominate a race from beginning to end.

ok... this prima donna theory is ridiculous.  think about it: since the 800cc ducati was introduced so far exactly one guy has been able to ride it.  and that guy comes from a dirt track background.  he's comfortable with the bike doing god knows what under him.  the other 86% of the riders that have tried can't get near their normal times on it.  loris is no couch  potato.  we all know marco is a top 5 rider, not bottom 5.  elias was also sure a hell of lot more successful on the honda.  the list goes on.

so last year most of the manus didn't quite get it right with the first 800.  and ducati went for pure speed, which got everyone's attention in a big way.  everyone wanted to ride one.  especially when they saw the success stoner was having.. a success that due to the perfect storm of his riding style on that bike, meant that no one else really understood that the thing was just barely under control. 

conversely, and in the shadow of so much stoner success, first year out the gate for a brand new bike, loris doesn't quite get along with it.. eh, not such a huge indicator for the state of the bike (apparently).  the entire paddock is a) trying to figure out brand new bikes and b) losing drag races to stoner every weekend.  no one really understood that the gp7 was like riding a bike with lopsided wheels.

then there's the fact that michelin, in the face of the new tire rules, completely, utterly fell flat on it's face.  ...about exactly the same time that bridgestone, with their slow-and-steady development tactic, seriously came into their own.  more bright lights away from the ridability of the ducati.

so, end of the year... loris kinda sorta gets the bike sorted enought to win motegi (but knows he's outta there for suzuki.. can't ride that gp7 to save his life), honda finds some balls, yamaha is lost but rossi has already signed with bridgestone and publicly threatened yamaha into giving him a good bike, and stoner with his ONE front tire that works and the heaven-sent symbiotic relationship with the bike easily takes the championship.  -- not that i'm taking a single thing away from him.  he completely deserved the title, no questions asked.

we get to 2008, casey's one tire doesn't work as well anymore, the bike is even more unrideable, even for him and damn well especially for everyone else.  he starts off by winning the annual drag race in the desert but then is visibly lost on set-up after that.  i'm sure they've made up some of that gap, lately, obviously.  but it aint 2007 brother.  fast forward to mugello, and here we are....

ANYway... this: "Those other riders have been in the premier class a while (by sport standards) now and feel that even if Ducati punts em, they can find another ride elsewhere. So they don't risk themselves nearly as much as Stoner does" is absurd.  no one in that paddock is there to do laps and sign autographs; they got rid of the hoff.  NONE of the other ducati riders are anywheres near happy.  they aren't biding their time.  bullshit.  i'm sure that marco and toni, for one, would each give a nut to be back on the gresini honda right NOW.  why?  because that gp8 is like trying to ride a greased pig and no one trusts it.  and the two rookies on hondas are handing them their lunch on a regular basis.  not becuase they're standing back there doing their hair and waiting for next season.  try bending it into a corner at half the speed they ride on a bike you don't trust and tell me what happens.  come on man.

[darylbowden]

ok... this prima donna theory is ridiculous.  think about it: since the 800cc ducati was introduced so far exactly one guy has been able to ride it.  and that guy comes from a dirt track background.  he's comfortable with the bike doing god knows what under him.  the other 86% of the riders that have tried can't get near their normal times on it.  loris is no couch  potato.  we all know marco is a top 5 rider, not bottom 5.  elias was also sure a hell of lot more successful on the honda.  the list goes on.

so last year most of the manus didn't quite get it right with the first 800.  and ducati went for pure speed, which got everyone's attention in a big way.  everyone wanted to ride one.  especially when they saw the success stoner was having.. a success that due to the perfect storm of his riding style on that bike, meant that no one else really understood that the thing was just barely under control. 

conversely, and in the shadow of so much stoner success, first year out the gate for a brand new bike, loris doesn't quite get along with it.. eh, not such a huge indicator for the state of the bike (apparently).  the entire paddock is a) trying to figure out brand new bikes and b) losing drag races to stoner every weekend.  no one really understood that the gp7 was like riding a bike with lopsided wheels.

then there's the fact that michelin, in the face of the new tire rules, completely, utterly fell flat on it's face.  ...about exactly the same time that bridgestone, with their slow-and-steady development tactic, seriously came into their own.  more bright lights away from the ridability of the ducati.

so, end of the year... loris kinda sorta gets the bike sorted enought to win motegi (but knows he's outta there for suzuki.. can't ride that gp7 to save his life), honda finds some balls, yamaha is lost but rossi has already signed with bridgestone and publicly threatened yamaha into giving him a good bike, and stoner with his ONE front tire that works and the heaven-sent symbiotic relationship with the bike easily takes the championship.  -- not that i'm taking a single thing away from him.  he completely deserved the title, no questions asked.

we get to 2008, casey's one tire doesn't work as well anymore, the bike is even more unrideable, even for him and damn well especially for everyone else.  he starts off by winnign the annual drag race in the desert but then is visibly lost on set-up after that.  i'm sure they've made up some of that gap, lately, obviously.  but it aint 2007 brother.  fast forward to mugello, and here we are....

ANYway... this: "Those other riders have been in the premier class a while (by sport standards) now and feel that even if Ducati punts em, they can find another ride elsewhere. So they don't risk themselves nearly as much as Stoner does" is absurd.  no one in that paddock is there to do laps and sign autographs; they got rid of the hoff.  NONE of the other ducati riders are anywheres near happy.  they aren't biding their time.  bullshit.  i'm sure that marco and toni, for one, would each give a nut to be back on the gresini honda right NOW.  why?  because that gp8 is like trying to ride a greased pig and no one trusts it.  not becuase they're standing back there doing their hair and waiting for next season.  try bending it into a corner at half the speed they ride on a bike you don't trust and tell me what happens.  come on man.

+1.  I just didn't have the energy to address everything wrong (and completely assumption-based) with the aforementioned comments, so I'm glad you did.

[gm2]

+1.  I just didn't have the energy to address everything wrong (and completely assumption-based) with the aforementioned comments, so I'm glad you did.

yeah, well, i'm out of town for business.. stuck in a hotel room battling time zones.  i have time and energy to burn. 

[A.B]

so what is it, exactly, that makes the GP8 so tough to ride?  electronics, power delivery, geometry?

[tufty]

ok...

Wow, you wrote a lot. Can I have a signed first edition when the hardback is released?

I still reckon Ducati will be talking to Chaz again soon though.

[tufty]

so what is it, exactly, that makes the GP8 so tough to ride?  electronics, power delivery, geometry?

The "ducati" logo on the tank.

[gm2]

Wow, you wrote a lot. Can I have a signed first edition when the hardback is released?

 

bit of a rant, yes.

but keerist.. the notion that certain riders are just kicking back and waiting.  or that the last 1.33 seasons don't have a very complex assortment of factors contributing to how things have gone... completely ridiculous.

[gm2]

so what is it, exactly, that makes the GP8 so tough to ride?  electronics, power delivery, geometry?

yes. 

it's been written that the gp7/8 is "barely under control" by electronics.  so i guess it's the electronics that make it possible to ride it rather than part of what makes it so tough.  they have an extremely advanced implementation of the magneti marelli system. 

when they built the 800 they built the fastest bike they could then spent all their other development time on software.  everyone else started out with a very mass-centralized, even tempered, mechanically balanced 'small' bike.

[ducpainter]

It would be interesting to see what god could do with the Duc.

[gm2]

I'm sure jerry would figure it out

[ducpainter]

I'm sure jerry would figure it out

one of them would probably get it...eventually.

It's interesting...Kawasaki always used to build rockets and would tie a rider on and say "there you go...do what you can with it". Seems Ducati has adopted that philosophy.

Not working any better now, or so it seems.

[derby]

It's interesting...Kawasaki always used to build rockets and would tie a rider on and say "there you go...do what you can with it". Seems Ducati has adopted that philosophy.

they still do... have you heard hackings comments about the zx10r?

[ducpainter]

they still do... have you heard hackings comments about the zx10r?

No...but I'll look for them.

I lost friends on H1Rs.

The Duc of today looks like one of those accelerating.

[tufty]

they still do... have you heard hackings comments about the zx10r?

Heh, it was the first time I ever heard a racer imply a bike was too fast in a while.

[ZLTFUL]

I am not presuming to know the thoughts of anyone. But I can put myself into their mindset...

Why push it with a bike that by premier class standards is inferior and risk your career when the factory has been giving you the silent equivilant of go pound sand? Ducati has taken the attitude of "Well Stoner can ride it, why can't you?" To me, that sounds like Casey is riding a bit closer to the edge than the rest of the "team". And alot of it *is* him trying to prove that last year wasn't a fluke. The man can ride. Hell, all of them can ride or they wouldn't be there. But why risk your neck when the factory basically ignores you when there are 4 other teams waiting in the wings that change up their camps regularly? And name one team out there that wouldn't be ready to negotiate with a veteran rider to support their up and coming stars for a better overall season.

I am not trying to downplay anyone's performance. I am simply putting myself into their shoes (big shoes to be sure but logic and common sense DOES come in to play here as well as politics).

And Rossi didn't give up persay but he also wasn't pushing as hard after about halfway through the season. He saw that there were issues to be resolved and rather than risk it, if the bike wasn't working exactly how he wanted, he was content with scoring as many championship points as he could without crashing out or blowing the bike up. Look at how he has ridden the last 3 races. The man is possessed. He is having fun again because things are gelling.

There is a reason these guys are racing in the premier class. They are all good. Heck, even Edwards is showing the old horse still has a few more trail rides left in him. As for Capirossi, yeah, I can see how he would be put out by being sent down to the support team.