Has anyone experienced this Toyota problem?

[Howie]

I have done that before too.  Panic stop, slam on the brake and gas at the same time.  Luckily it was a manual so I just slammed both feet down, the car stopped but the engine red lined.  I wouldn't be suprised if that happend to the old man by accident and he didn't realize it.  I also can't imagine that the prius has enough power to pull away from a stop while on the brakes.  

The inability of away from the light with adequate force on the brake pedal really goes for any car.  I'll skip the physics, and just add a little reality.  Back in my youth people but big modified V8s with automatic transmissions into cars with 8" anemic drum brakes drum brakes.  They would use a technique called "power braking" to launch them in a drag race (yea, I know, the technique is used today, but new cars have much better brakes).  The big buck guys would use a "line lock" (still used) that would just apply the front brakes, allowing the rear wheels to spin, like doing a burn out on your bike.

One area where it appears Toyota missed the boat, I could be wrong on this not knowing much about Toyota (paging Randy) is many drive by wire cars are programed to reduce throttle if the brakes are applied while in gear.  My Audi will not go over about 1300 RPM.  In neutral it will not go over about 3.5K RPM, in other words, if you check it into neutral it will not blow up.

Interesting read:

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q4/how_to_deal_with_unintended_acceleration-tech_dept

I couldn't find it on google, but back in the days of the run away Audis Car and Driver set a car up so the passenger could trigger every possible cause of unintended acceleration.  Of course, they also added a brake pedal on the passenger side.  The drivers were ordinary people. Every driver who was not able to stop the car had mistakenly their foot planted on the accelerator pedal.

[ducatiz]

.... Every driver who was not able to stop the car had mistakenly their foot planted on the accelerator pedal.

so does this mean that every person who has this problem in a Toyota is a moron?

not that i would be surprised, considering the problem(s) has/have happened mostly in Camrys and Priuses..

[cyrus buelton]

I own a 2003 Lexus RX300 I bought December 23 2008.

It had 72k mi on it.

It now has a 79k mi on it (yeah, I drive a lot).


Not in the Carfax report is this problem addressed.

and

I haven't experienced it.

I like my SUV. It is nice, comfortable, and rides well.


Sticky accelerator? Through the make the beast with two backser in neutral and hit the brakes accordingly based on the situation you are in.

[cyrus buelton]

My reasoning is more from an electrical connection, noise, or insulation degradation situation than a software glitch.  That is the approach the Asst Prof at S. IL also took to show it could happen.  From what I understand, his method was pretty extreme and needed a safe guard to fail to make it work, but again, if you have 10 million vehicles out there, if it is even possible, it could happen a hand full of times.

For example, if a throttle position sensor goes bad, it is supposed to fail into a fail safe mode, so it "limps" home - this has happened to me in the past on my honda crv.  But, if that fail safe default fails, then the ecu could see 50% throttle when the accelerator is only at 10%, and cause this sort of unintended.

mitt

I read an article about that U of IL-Carbondale (or whatever the University in Carbondale is....maybe it is S. IL.).

The watch dog group that monitors cars, comprised of reps from each manufacturer, experts, etc etc.

They said that guys test was a bunch of shit. It "could" happen but only with severe tampering and some sort of re-routing of the circuit board.

but again........that is just what I read. I am not into electronics and can't even use a voltmeter other than to fry fuses.

[victor441]

I have a 2008 Prius and have had zero problems in 2+ years....but the electronics can do strange things, a 2009 company owned one at work was turning on by itself then starting and stopping the engine to keep the battery charged over a weekend, was able to shut it down when I came across it in the lot, but AFAIK it still has not been fixed.  Sometimes consider going back to the dead reliable and easy to fix BMW twin and VW bug I owned back in the '80's (points, carbs, etc.) after hearing of electronic woes (like the fact that my Monster can die if the gauges get wet in the rain  )

[cyrus buelton]

I have a 2008 Prius and have had zero problems in 2+ years....but the electronics can do strange things, a 2009 company owned one at work was turning on by itself then starting and stopping the engine to keep the battery charged over a weekend, was able to shut it down when I came across it in the lot, but AFAIK it still has not been fixed.  Sometimes consider going back to the dead reliable and easy to fix BMW twin and VW bug I owned back in the '80's (points, carbs, etc.) after hearing of electronic woes (like the fact that my Monster can die if the gauges get wet in the rain  )

Have Zhoul, the Keymaster or Gatekeeper been near it?

[mitt]

Electronics are sensitive to things that mechanical devices are not.  There have been a lot of recalls in the last 10 years on automotive electronic devices - crash sensors (my 2006 nissan had this), ignition switches on fords, ecu modules, due to corrosion on connections making the brain unit not see the proper reading.  I can't rule out yet there isn't something like that happening here. 

A sensor is just a device converting something mechanical into electrical, typically voltage.  If you have a connection on or in the sensor that is going bad (intermittent higher resistance), it can look just like the sensor measurement to the control unit, and you can have unintended outputs.  I have seen this first hand in my field.

mitt

[duccarlos]

There are 2 separate issues here. One is the floor mat, which can potentially happen in just about any car, and the other with the hybrids. The hybrid issue is a software problem, so it would need to occur in a car that has all the fail safes bypassed. It would be extremely rare. Now since the transmission is also electronic I'm not sure if you can simply pop it into neutral like you could in a normal car. That would be my personal choice if put into that situation. It's happened enough for Toyota to be facing this kind of scrutiny, but people are acting like if recalls were not a normal occurence. I had to recently take my Accord for an airbag recall. No big deal and my Accord is by far the most reliable vehicle I've ever owned.

[mitt]

There are 2 separate issues here. One is the floor mat, which can potentially happen in just about any car, and the other with the hybrids. The hybrid issue is a software problem, so it would need to occur in a car that has all the fail safes bypassed. It would be extremely rare. Now since the transmission is also electronic I'm not sure if you can simply pop it into neutral like you could in a normal car. That would be my personal choice if put into that situation. It's happened enough for Toyota to be facing this kind of scrutiny, but people are acting like if recalls were not a normal occurence. I had to recently take my Accord for an airbag recall. No big deal and my Accord is by far the most reliable vehicle I've ever owned.

There are at least 3 issues currently

1 - floor mats (all mfg's, all models)
2 - electrical unintended acceleration like in camry's and lexus (the current hot topic in congress)
3 - prius electrical stuff - like acceleration and braking weirdness

[duccarlos]

Ok, the second one was the one I was missing. Does it accelerate like if the cruise control is set to a very high speed?

[mitt]

Ok, the second one was the one I was missing. Does it accelerate like if the cruise control is set to a very high speed?

From what I have seen & read yes - but it is the one that can't be reproduced without several layers of tampering with the factory electronics - so the jury is semi-literally still out.  There is a 3 billion dollar class action being created.

mitt

[Triple J]

The floor mat issue is an oversight on Toyota's part and can be easily fixed. Nissan figured it out no problem...the drivers side mat in my Xterra has a hole in the rear of it which fits over a pin attached to the seat rail. What do ya know...the mat never slides forward!

All I can say about the electronic issues is one of the main reasons I didn't buy the Lexus IS350 was because the steering is completely electronic...no mechanical connection to the wheels apparently. The salesman was quite proud of this recent development in automotive technology, and loved to describe how the car "helps" you steer into crosswinds and such (like when passing a semi).   Unfortunately for him he couldn't explain what happens to the steering in the car when you lose power unexpectedly going down the freeway.   Unlikely, sure...but plausible...and I'd rather not find out I had no steering in that situation.

[duccarlos]

I know that either my Accord or the Sienna has that pin. Don't remember which off the top of my head.

[mdriver]

One area where it appears Toyota missed the boat, I could be wrong on this not knowing much about Toyota (paging Randy) is many drive by wire cars are programed to reduce throttle if the brakes are applied while in gear.  My Audi will not go over about 1300 RPM.  In neutral it will not go over about 3.5K RPM, in other words, if you check it into neutral it will not blow up.

If my memory serves correct the only cars that do the rev limit thing are audi/vw and they only set it up like that because a few years back they had a similar problem to the current Toyota issue.


From what I've been told Toyota is currently treating two issues. One is a "software problem", which they are attempting to fix by reprogramming the ECU. The second is the sticky throttle linkage. I'm not sure what they are actually doing to fix that, but it involves removing and reinstalling the pedal assembly.

The floor mat issue is mostly a red herring.

[mitt]

From what I've been told Toyota is currently treating two issues. One is a "software problem", which they are attempting to fix by reprogramming the ECU. The second is the sticky throttle linkage. I'm not sure what they are actually doing to fix that, but it involves removing and reinstalling the pedal assembly.

I forgot about the sticky linkage problem due to "supplier defect" part, so there are at least 4 different hot topics.

mitt