California Insurance

[Vindingo]

My policy with Geico ended in September, about 2 weeks after I left.  I didn't renew the contract because I had no intention of using Geico for any of my vehicles once I got back to NJ.  They have a convenience service of renewing your policy for you even if you don't sign any papers.  They have been charging me for the last 6 months because they conveniently renewed a service I didn't want.  Apparently it is California law that they HAVE to do this...?

I sold my Wagoneer for $200 cash, I have no record of it and really don't want to deal wtih DMV.   

I guess the question I am asking is, are they aloud to auto renew my policy even if I didn't sign anything and keep taking my money?  Is it a law in CA that they HAVE to do this? 

[desmoquattro]

In general, the policies I've had were auto-renewed. That includes homeowners' insurance too. And insurance companies try to bill you for it, even if they don't process your notice of cancellation in time. I'm not sure if state law requires it, or if the insurance company is (gasp! perish the thought) lying.

You should fight them on it. If you can get the title transfer records from the DMV you can hold it over their heads. Calmly browbeat them until they refund your money as a "courtesy".

[Vindingo]

I kept asking the lady at Geico to show me where in my contract it says where I agreed to an auto renew and she said that it doesn't say it anywhere.  She then proceeded to tell me that it is an agreement they have with CA, and I asked where I could see that in writing.   She said she couldn't tell me and that this is just "how it is".  I kind of lost my cool and told her that "she is full of shit and how do I know she isn't lying to me?"  obviously that didn't help any.

I read through my original contract and there is no mention of auto-renew and all I could find from CA was this:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=ins&group=00001-01000&file=660-669.5


663.  (a) Before policy expiration, an insurer shall deliver to or
mail to the named insured, at the address shown on the policy, one of
the following:
   (1) At least 20 days before expiration, a written or verbal offer
of renewal of the policy, contingent upon payment of premium as
stated in the offer.
   (2) At least 30 days before expiration, a written notice of
nonrenewal of the policy, including the statement required by Section
666.
   (b) (1) An insurer that delivers a verbal offer to renew that is
declined by an insured shall, at least 20 days before expiration of
the policy, deliver to or mail to the named insured, at the address
shown on the policy, a written confirmation of the offer and
rejection.
   (2) An insurer that attempts to satisfy subdivision (a) with a
verbal offer to renew, but is unable to contact the named insured
directly at least 20 days before policy expiration, shall, at least
20 days before policy expiration, deliver to or mail to the named
insured, at the address shown on the policy, a written offer to renew
the policy, contingent upon payment of premium as stated in the
offer.
   (c) In the event that an insurer fails to give the named insured
either an offer of renewal or notice of nonrenewal as required by
this section, the existing policy, with no change in its terms and
conditions, shall remain in effect for 30 days from the date that
either the offer to renew or the notice of nonrenewal is delivered or
mailed to the named insured. A notice to this effect shall be
provided by the insurer to the named insured with the policy or the
notice of renewal or nonrenewal. Notwithstanding the failure of an
insurer to comply with this section, the policy shall terminate on
the effective date of any other replacement or succeeding automobile
insurance policy procured by the insured, or his agent or broker,
with respect to any automobile designated in both policies.
   (d) The insurer shall not be required to notify the named insured,
or any other insured, of nonrenewal of the policy if the insurer has
mailed or delivered a notice of expiration or cancellation, on or
prior to the 30th day preceding expiration of the policy period.



663.5.  (a) No insurer shall fail to renew a policy solely on the
basis of the age of the insured.
   (b) On and after January 1, 2000, no insurer shall fail to renew a
policy solely on the grounds that a claim is pending under the
policy. This subdivision shall not be construed to limit an insurer's
ability to nonrenew a policy based upon a directive from the
commissioner for solvency or other financially related issues. This
subdivision shall not be construed to limit an insurer's right to
cancel a policy pursuant to Section 676.



664.  Proof of mailing of notice of cancellation, or of intention
not to renew or of reasons for cancellation, to the named insured at
the address shown in the policy or to the named insured's latest
known address, shall be sufficient proof of notice.

[Vindingo]

what all of that mean... i have no freakin idea.

[desmoquattro]

what all of that mean... i have no freakin idea.

Basically, they have to mail you renewal forms, and cover you while you decide whether to renew, even after the policy period is over. That's why they try to charge you or bill you even after your policy expiration date.

[Spidey]

I don't know the law on this subject, Vin.  But those provisions you've ID'd are not about auto-renewal.  Like Joe said, those provisions are to prevent an insurer from canceling your policy unless they give you notice beforehand.

If GEICO can't cite you an autorenewal clause in the policy or the CA law they're relying upon, they need to cough up your $ for the last six months. 

[TCK!]

what all of that mean... i have no freakin idea.

Well I've had my insurance canceled on me twice due to lack of payment. I also paid with a credit card that was no longer valid when it came time to renew so they had no means to bill me.

(1) At least 20 days before expiration, a written or verbal offer
of renewal of the policy, contingent upon payment of premium as
stated in the offer.
   (2) At least 30 days before expiration, a written notice of
nonrenewal of the policy, including the statement required by Section
666.
   (b) (1) An insurer that delivers a verbal offer to renew that is
declined by an insured shall, at least 20 days before expiration of
the policy, deliver to or mail to the named insured, at the address
shown on the policy, a written confirmation of the offer and
rejection.

From this garbage I'm guessing that the renewal notice they sent to you in SF probably said in the fine print, "If you don't send this back with a written rejection, we are going to auto bill your credit card"

[Vindingo]

If GEICO can't cite you an autorenewal clause in the policy or the CA law they're relying upon, they need to cough up your $ for the last six months. 

Is that burdern really on them?  I figured I would have to sift tons of crap to prove I don't owe them money.

[desmoquattro]

I don't know the law on this subject, Vin.  But those provisions you've ID'd are not about auto-renewal.  Like Joe said, those provisions are to prevent an insurer from canceling your policy unless they give you notice beforehand.

If GEICO can't cite you an autorenewal clause in the policy or the CA law they're relying upon, they need to cough up your $ for the last six months. 

I agree. I had a similar situation with a homeowner's policy: they didn't process my cancellation in time, and tried to bill us for the extra week they kept the policy in force as a "courtesy". We had our agent fight them, and they ultimately retracted the demand for payment.

There's a lesson here: never let an insurance company demand a credit card for payment. And if they do, tell them not to keep it on file. With Bill Pay, there's no technical reason why they would need it...some companies demand a credit card to lull you into complacency: many people won't shop a policy when it just auto-renews.

[Spidey]

TCK, you had to have both an offer and an acceptance for a contract.  An offer that says that it'll be deemed an acceptance if you don't respond doesn't pass muster.

Vin, they took your $. They should have to prove to you that they're entitled to it or give it back. 

[Popeye the Sailor]

I've never had one auto renew, even when I wanted them to.

[mostrobelle]

I pay monthly and they're johnny-on-the-spot to cancel if you're even a couple of days late.  I've canceled a couple of policies in the middle of the month and I've always gotten a pro-rated refund.  The six month thing seems weird.  Definitely worth looking into further.  Did you call them?

[Spidey]

I sold my Wagoneer for $200 cash, I have no record of it and really don't want to deal wtih DMV.   

Was the Wagoneer registered in your name? If so, you should do a DMV release of liability form.  Otherwise, any parking ticket the new owner gets is going to go on your name and your record.  Last thing you want is your credit to get messed up because there is some screwed up thing in CA back from when you used to live here.

[Vindingo]

Was the Wagoneer registered in your name? If so, you should do a DMV release of liability form. 

I took care of that already, the thing on the bottom of the pink slip....

[Spidey]

I took care of that already, the thing on the bottom of the pink slip....

Ok, cool.  I got a bit worried when you said you didn't have any paperwork.