State of the Market: stock, modified and radical

[mitt]

Personally for me, heavy mods subtract value instead of add.  This goes for bikes and autos.

I agree with the poster above, Ducati does a pretty good job, and has a lot more resources than any DIY'r, so it is hard to improve unless it is cosmetic.

mitt

[Norm]

For the record, stock bikes are built to a minimum standard and also have to comply with all the appropriate government rules. A well done modified (or custom built) bike is faster, safer, more fun, and more reliable.

[mitt]

For the record, stock bikes are built to a minimum standard and also have to comply with all the appropriate government rules. A well done modified (or custom built) bike is faster, safer, more fun, and more reliable.

We can agree to disagree.  Show me a custom that will beat a Desmosedici, have a 2 year warranty, and pass emissions tests.

For that matter, even a 1098R with a warranty and emissions.  The Factory has more engineering, more research, more testing, more everything but craftsmanship than a builder.

mitt

[Magnus]

It's worth converting a "bolt-on" modified bike back to stock before you sell it, I did that with my 900.  Not only do the majority of buyers want a stock bike so that they can make the bike "theirs" but they also tend to think of a heavily modified bike as more likely to be beat on or abused.  I'm not saying that particular assumption has any validity, but that's the mindset I believe.  And you'll have no problem selling off parts on ebay.

Not sure what the Black Fog would go for, but things would really have to take a turn for the worse for me to get to that point.  People have asked how much is it worth or how much would I sell it for, but it's not goin anywhere!  It's value to me has nothing to do with the monetary value.

[Norm]

See what you started Mark!!
I had a local dealer who used to ask me to give him stock parts I took off bikes. He removed & sold the modded parts on used bikes, replaced them with stock parts & told people the bike was just used by a little old lady to run over ants in the driveway (my expression for B/S). After a little bit, I stopped giving him parts & either gave them away or threw them away.
Now....... it sound like we have a challenge from Mitt. I don't care about emissions stuff & any high HP faired bike will out run any of mine in a straight line, but if you're talking about twisty backroads, we'll meet you anywhere between Asheville & deal's gap.......bring your wallet, we don't accept checks.

[hbliam]

Sorry to rant, but the point is that I no longer get inqueries from far away. The south east has pretty much been the market ever since because people need to see, touch, and ride a custom bike unless they've read nothing but praise for many years.
I think Stuart will sell his bike, but it may take a buyer local to him. I think failures to sell on Ebay only put doubts in people's minds.

I don't think Flight (or Mark Savory for that matter) would be lumped in with your issue. I think Stuart can sell his bikes sight unseen (meaning just with photos) still. He hasn't suffered the bad press that you have and I don't expect he ever will.

ebay is ebay, it's just a matter of listing on the right day at the right price. An unsuccessful auction doesn't mean much. I've sold two bikes through eBay, both ended with no bids and resulted with cash in hand less then a week later.

[Norm]

Well, this is the internet & anyone can be slandered with a keystroke, I don't know anyone who is immune to it. You can sue, and win, but what do you actually win? And I find that one complaint is worth about 10 praises. I've found in my business that a smaller core of people makes for a happier atmosphere & I suspect Stuart & Mark will agree. My son (who owns the business now) wants to expand production but I'm trying to caution him to go slowly.
Anyway, this thread isn't supposed to be about how wonderful or terrible I am, or anybody else, it's about Stuart's bike for sale. We can all guess, but Stuart will just have to let us know over the passage of time.

[hbliam]

Well, this is the internet & anyone can be slandered with a keystroke, I don't know anyone who is immune to it. You can sue, and win, but what do you actually win? And I find that one complaint is worth about 10 praises. I've found in my business that a smaller core of people makes for a happier atmosphere & I suspect Stuart & Mark will agree. My son (who owns the business now) wants to expand production but I'm trying to caution him to go slowly.
Anyway, this thread isn't supposed to be about how wonderful or terrible I am, or anybody else, it's about Stuart's bike for sale. We can all guess, but Stuart will just have to let us know over the passage of time.

This thread isn't about Stuart's bike being for sale, it's about the market for stock, modified, and custom bikes. I also wasn't saying you were wonderful or terrible. Just pointing out that your problems with nutjob phil are not anyone else's problem, thus they may not experiance the problems with their business that you have with yours.

As far as the thread goes. If I buy a stock bike I mod it to clean it up and to do sublte changes that make the bike perform better. If I was ever to go custom it would be with a massaged motor and monster chassis. I'm not a fan of any of the "custom" one off's that I've seen so far.

[Norm]

You're right, fair enough.

[Duck-Stew]

The bob-job just sold to a local bloke for more $ than the Ebay auction started for.

I'm very happy.....as this bike needs to close to the guy who built it as there's just too much custom stuff for a regular bike shop to really know or want to know anything about it.

Another happy customer!  [moto] 

[sbrguy]

for me personally i like to buy a close to stock bike, however there are exceptions.

if the mods are bolt on ones that i would have done anyway but are there already then of course i would buy the bike.  if they are ones that i don't really like then they add no value.

now if the bike has mods on it that i want then maybe i'll pay a little more than normal but you are not getting all your money back by any means, ie, slips ons that cost 1500 will only add around 300-400 if that to a stock used bike price, you aren't going to get 1500 extra out of me, no way, but i think everyone agrees iwth that.

the only mods that i think take value away from teh bike, are ones that you can't reverse, ie, a tail chop. 

i know many people like this mod but personally i would never buy a bike with a simple tail chop as its cutting the frame. so this in my book takes away from the bike.

now custom bikes are completely different stories, ie the stu's bobber that is no longer "just a regular monster" so to speak so the rules about mods no longer applies for me.

[Manny]

Whenever I've sold a bike that I've modded I've also included the original parts. The mods don't often really raise the value of the bike, but they do make the asking price non-negotiable (just a more solid footing to stand on). But that's not the reason to mod a bike. I do it for fun and to make it mine.

When buying a bike, I will pay more for the right mods on a bike, but don't want a ton of mods done already. Most of the fun is in doing it myself.

[Labbedds]

I bought my bike modded exactly how I would have done it.  Saved at least $4K.

[bigiain]

Seems to me that both Norms and Stews experience shows that eBay isn't the right way to sell a seriously custom bike. eBay is mostly all about a quick buck for the seller and an impulse buy for the buyer.

I'd love to own both Gina _and_ the Bobber, but that's as much because I "know" the guys who built them as it is about the bikes themselves.

If somebody showed me anonymous pictures of a bike like a DesmoDevil, my first thoughs would be "nice, but who built it?" Without knowing it was a MotoCreations bike I'd have a head full of questions and suspicions. When I read about the Gina dramas though, I think "some musician gets freaked 'cause some Ducati dealership mechanic says it's 'unsafe', but Norm who's been building and riding customs like her for quite some time lets his son wail up and down Blue Ridge Parkway on her, I think _I_ can decide who's opinion of her 'safety' I'm gonna believe"...

I think it's all about reputation - I can buy a blinged out Monster from pretty much anybody, 'cause I can trust the reputations of Ducati and Rizoma and Termigoni and CycleCat and Ohlins and Marchesini... A bike like that is never worth the sum of it's parts, but at least the value of the individual parts is pretty well known. A bike like Gina or the Bobber or a DesmoDevil though, I can't rely on it's Ducati heritage to tell me all that much about it. I can though rely on Norms history here and on TOB and on the actual mailing list before that, and form my own opinion on Norms reputation. Same with Stew and Mark - I'd buy a bike off you guys in a moment given a chance. I'll bet a lot of the custom Harley crowd feel the same way about "brands" like Orange County Choppers - their bikes are "worth" more than other custom Harleys 'cause of the reputation of the builders. (deserved or not...)

Maybe we need to pitch a prime-time TV show based on the DMF custom bike builders - see what happens to the prices of some of these machines when _that_ starts rating! 

big

[Desmo Demon]

I keep all my original parts that I remove and I generally will only add slipons and maybe a windshield or other minor mod. On my ST2, I did add a lower windshield and Helibar adaptors with clip-ons, but the OEM windshield and bars are put away. I also installed master cylinders with remote reservoirs, but I still have the original coffin-style ones. I recently bought another ST2 and I'm selling almost all of the touring-related mods that were on the bike. Fortunately, to save me even more money, he gave me the original windshield and seat.

I also will normally walk away from a vehicle that has had engine mods or has been repainted. A repaint tells me its probably been wrecked, and engine mods scare me because I have no idea which idiot with a wrench *thought* they knew how to work on it.

From what I've seen mods generally add almost nothing to the value of the vehicle unless you are fortunate to find someone who wanted those exact mods and looked at it as saving them some money and installation costs. Also, generally speaking, the older the vehicle, the more it is worth as the closer to original it is.