Organic food - I buy it, but why?

[Turf]

I can be my own monument.

aren't you anyway?

[acalles]

Sure about that?

http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2006/12.07/11-dairy.html

interesting, especially considering they did not state anything about cows with added hormones,but more about the natural hormones in pregnant cows.

from the artical

The potential for risk is large. Natural estrogens are up to 100,000 times more potent than their environmental counterparts, such as the estrogen-like compounds in pesticides.

soo.. the supposed health potential has really nothing to do with cows that have added hormones to boost production, but rather the natural effects of milking pregnant cows.

[The Architect]

rabbit tastes good.

tastes just like chicken but better

[cyrus buelton]

I like shopping at the local farmers market during the summer months and buying local sweetcorn, etc.


However...........



How can one be sure it is organic or are you going for the "grow in my home area" argument?




Speed - Sprinkle Blood Meal around your garden to keep out rabbits. My Dad used to do it when I was a kid and it seemed to work out well.



I tried to grow some marijuana in my basement; it didn't work.

Don't think I'll be taking a shot at growing my own veggies.

However, my wife did grow some killer Jalopeno's last year.

[ducpainter]

I like shopping at the local farmers market during the summer months and buying local sweetcorn, etc.


However...........



How can one be sure it is organic or are you going for the "grow in my home area" argument?




Speed - Sprinkle Blood Meal around your garden to keep out rabbits. My Dad used to do it when I was a kid and it seemed to work out well.



I tried to grow some marijuana in my basement; it didn't work.

Don't think I'll be taking a shot at growing my own veggies.

However, my wife did grow some killer Jalopeno's last year.

You can't be sure.

If it's local it is fresher, and will taste better.

[cyrus buelton]

You can't be sure.

If it's local it is fresher, and will taste better.

I've found the taste on local bought at the store to not be terribly different than the produce I buy at Kroger or a local place called Anderson's.


Maybe I just have shitty taste buds.

[Triple J]

interesting, especially considering they did not state anything about cows with added hormones,but more about the natural hormones in pregnant cows.


soo.. the supposed health potential has really nothing to do with cows that have added hormones to boost production, but rather the natural effects of milking pregnant cows.

True. But if the natural hormones affect us, it is only logical to assume that the ones they pump the cows full of to increase milk production do as well. I'll stick with as few hormones in my milk as possible please.  

However, my main point in posting the link was to refute your claim that it doesn't matter what is in our food, as our stomach breaks everything down anyway. That would appear to be false. I think it very much matters what we stick into our bodies.

I've found the taste on local bought at the store to not be terribly different than the produce I buy at Kroger or a local place called Anderson's.


Maybe I just have shitty taste buds.

I can tell a difference with fruits more then veggies. Local fruit is almost always better...way better even. I have noticed the lettuce grown in my parent's garden tastes better than the dtore bought, but that's about it. Of course, I'm not a big veggie fan, so...

[ducpainter]

I've found the taste on local bought at the store to not be terribly different than the produce I buy at Kroger or a local place called Anderson's.


Maybe I just have shitty taste buds.

Once it enters the supermarket you have no idea how long it's been since harvest.

Try a farmers market. Look the guy in the eye and ask him when it was picked.

He'll probably tell you today...pass on that guy. He's more than likely lying.

Buy from the guy that says yesterday.

[cyrus buelton]

Try a farmers market. Look the guy in the eye and ask him when it was picked.

I shop at one when it opens during the summer months.

I just really can't tell the difference.

[Popeye the Sailor]

I shop at one when it opens during the summer months.

I just really can't tell the difference.

Smoke less cigars 

[triangleforge]

I shop at one when it opens during the summer months.

I just really can't tell the difference.

FWIW, There's a difference between "Farm Markets" and "Farmers' Markets" -- the former can (and usually does) consist mostly of folks who bought produce from the local wholesaler, the same place where local grocery stores buy it if they don't have their own corporate supply chain. Farmers Markets on the other hand often have an explicit requirement that the person who is selling the produce be the person who's selling -- it's worth asking how yours is organized. Generally speaking, having the grower physically standing behind the produce he/she raised means it's local and fresh(er), though you'll get a better idea on both if you actually talk to the seller as DP noted. If you care about such things, it's also worth talking to the produce manager at your regular big supermarket -- they've all noticed the interest in local foods, and many are jumping on the bandwagon, so when something's in season locally, your Safeway, Albertsons, Giant, or whatever might be a great source.

And some things you're not going to taste a whole lot of difference, especially if it's a veggie that transports or stores well -- squash, root vegetables, russet potatoes, etc. For me, the appeal of farmers markets with those are that you can find some weird, wild varieties that your local Safeway isn't going to bother with. But things like tomatoes & sweet corn start to convert sugars and lose flavor within minutes of harvest, so those are going to taste better the sooner you eat them -- better from a Farmers market that harvested them yesterday than from a Safeway that trucked them from Florida or South America, and still better from your own garden -- nothing's better than sweet corn when you've got the water already boiling or the grill already hot BEFORE you go out in the garden to harvest a few ears.

For me, it's even more important to know where meat comes from - we're lucky that local grassfed beef & lamb are readily available, but finding pork & chicken that were raised in a way that I'm personally comfortable with is a little trickier. Day before yesterday I found out I'd been drawn for an AZ elk tag, so with a little luck and a lot of work this Fall (and the purchase of a chest freezer), we'll have most of our red meat needs set for the season.  

Just last month, the USDA closed one of the loopholes that has bugged me since the law passed almost twenty years ago about organic milk, clarifying that in order to receive an organic label, milk had to come from cows that had been on pasture for at least 120 days of the year. Some of the biggest organic milk producers out there -- Horizon & Aurora -- fed organic feed in mega-feedlots just like any of the other huge dairies and were able to label their products as organic. And just because I've got a problem with those kinds of operations doesn't mean you have to, but I think we can agree that's NOT what most consumers had in mind when they plunked down their money for organic milk.

[herm]

my prefered produce choice matrix

grow my own
join a local CSA
find a good farmers market
buy as local as possible
buy what the local grocer has on the shelf (avoiding the "organic" labels, cause I am a cynic and think its all marketing hype)

[il d00d]

To those CSA members, a few questions.  I like the idea of local, organic, heirloom or unusual veggies, etc, but:

How much shopping displacement takes place with your weekly or otherwise delivery?  I am wonder how much this will actually supplement my usual trips to the store.
How much more work is it to rotate some of the more unusual fare into your cooking?  I am not necessarily against cooking kolrhabi or mizuna, I just never have.

I am sure MMMV, but give me a rough idea if you can of how it has worked out in your household.

[DesmoLu]

I'm going to be the voice of experience here, being a woman, when I say that extra estrogen is very much so and will always be:

DO NOT WANT!

[triangleforge]

To those CSA members, a few questions.  I like the idea of local, organic, heirloom or unusual veggies, etc, but:

How much shopping displacement takes place with your weekly or otherwise delivery?  I am wonder how much this will actually supplement my usual trips to the store.
How much more work is it to rotate some of the more unusual fare into your cooking?  I am not necessarily against cooking kolrhabi or mizuna, I just never have.

I am sure MMMV, but give me a rough idea if you can of how it has worked out in your household.

I've belonged to CSAs here in Arizona and in Northern Virginia and generally enjoyed the experience. In NOVA, it was a single-farm CSA -- Bull Run Farms -- and here in Arizona it was a multi-farm one organized with the help of a local college . Both were pretty similar experiences.

One thing you'll notice right off -- the deliveries are pretty seasonal; very thin or nonexistent in the winter, coming on strong in the spring and then tapering in the late fall. The amount of grocery store purchases it displaces will vary accordingly; more in summer, less in winter.

On average, I'd say it replaced about half of our regular purchases, but could have done more if we'd planned a little better. As much as displacing other purchases, I found we mostly just ate veggies that we wouldn't otherwise, both in kind and quantity. Dinners that we would have skipped making a veg side because we were too tired ended up with us making something because it was there and we didn't want to waste it. You'll also find yourself looking up recipes for stuff you've never seen before.  It's the first place I encountered kohlrabi, for example, which I now really like.

One of the frustrating things (especially in the thin seasons) is getting enough of something for half a portion -- um, what do I do with ONE beet? -- it works with a little bit of invention & mixing, but you will encounter it.

On the flip side, In the summer when tomatoes, basil and other things are coming on really heavy, you'll either waste some, give them away, or find ways to preserve them.

Weeks when you're away on vacation become an issue; both CSAs I've experienced will let you designate a friend to pick up your share that week, or donate to a local food bank. The Arizona one even had a limited "next day" pick up if you called and had them set aside a share.

We're not currently members of the local CSA, mostly because the semi-annual bill kept coming up in the same month as the six-month insurance bills on both motorcycles and we just weren't that liquid. Bikes are on monthly billing now, so might be time to look into it again.

This weekend, however, we're trying this for the first time: Bountiful Baskets. Their website does a lousy job of explaining it, but as I understand it the idea is you pay $15-$20 in advance whenever you want for a mix of large amounts of local produce -- eg. a flat of local strawberries, a big bunch of basil, a half bushel of squash and a couple of pounds of nuts (that's just a guess based on what I've heard about how it works). The basic idea is saving money by buying in bulk as a co-op and doing volunteer distribution, but there's also a certified all-organic option. We do a fair amount of canning and putting up preserves, so we hope to be able to keep up with significant amounts of stuff. We'll see!