2010 Mazdaspeed 3 vs VW GTI 4 Door

[ducatiz]

VW GTD FTW!

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/09q2/2010_volkswagen_gtd_diesel-first_drive_review

[teddy037.2]

VW GTD FTW!

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/09q2/2010_volkswagen_gtd_diesel-first_drive_review

HAWT!

oh, and as a side note... buying new was the only way I could get manual transmission for the car I have now

[nkryptit]

Wow.  Thanks for all the input.  I fully understand that I'm going to take a large hit driving a new car off the lot.  However, I have to agree with all the comments about performance cars being flogged and also out of warranty.  I'm willing to pay the premium to get a nice warranty and the peace of mind knowing that I'll be the one doing the flogging.  I bought a couple of used cars in the past, and my experience has be almost all negative, so new it is.

So it sounds like no votes for the MS3.  That's what I expected, and it really has helped.  I think I'm going to pick up the GTI, drive it around for a while, then decide if I want to flash.

Side-Trip:
So I've read a few threads about this, but still don't fully understand it.  If the 2.0T motor in the GTI can reliably handle another 50+ HP and even more torque, then why doesn't VW sell it like that.  Every other car in it's class is putting up those kind of numbers, so why not compete?

[Popeye the Sailor]

Side-Trip:
So I've read a few threads about this, but still don't fully understand it.  If the 2.0T motor in the GTI can reliably handle another 50+ HP and even more torque, then why doesn't VW sell it like that.  Every other car in it's class is putting up those kind of numbers, so why not compete?

Could be a mileage issue, emissions issue, or any other number of things.

The motor can handle it-how about the brakes? Suspension? Drivetrain? Transmission? If none of those things were designed with that intent, you may see significantly shortened life of those units.

[mraff]

I would suggest it is a mileage issue; part of the GTI's appeal, especially over in Europe, is its blend of good sporty performance coupled with excellent fuel mileage (for a sports / performance) oriented car.

[ducatiz]

Side-Trip:
So I've read a few threads about this, but still don't fully understand it.  If the 2.0T motor in the GTI can reliably handle another 50+ HP and even more torque, then why doesn't VW sell it like that.  Every other car in it's class is putting up those kind of numbers, so why not compete?

if its already tuned, how can they sell it as a tuner car?

plus, VW's at heart are supposed to be reliable, a little sporty and economical.

[zooom]

So I've read a few threads about this, but still don't fully understand it.  If the 2.0T motor in the GTI can reliably handle another 50+ HP and even more torque, then why doesn't VW sell it like that.  Every other car in it's class is putting up those kind of numbers, so why not compete?

because it would deter from the Audi A3 sales to which that car is roughly of the same chassis and motor, but tuned with the bigger pony power from the factory!...it isn't about competing with other manufacterers in the class, but trying to keep from competing aginst themselves....kinda like Nissan trying to maintain the differences between the 350Z/370Z and the G35/G37 coupe without losing sales to themselves( in a weird kinda way).

[nkryptit]

Very good answers...Thanks Guys!  I'm now trying to pit the VW and Mazda Salesmen against each other, to see if I can get the VW down to/below invoice.  Any last minute suggestions?

[ducatiz]

because it would deter from the Audi A3 sales to which that car is roughly of the same chassis and motor, but tuned with the bigger pony power from the factory!...it isn't about competing with other manufacterers in the class, but trying to keep from competing aginst themselves....kinda like Nissan trying to maintain the differences between the 350Z/370Z and the G35/G37 coupe without losing sales to themselves( in a weird kinda way).

interesting, that is the same reason they don't offer more Audi TDI options in the A3 line..

[zooom]

interesting, that is the same reason they don't offer more Audi TDI options in the A3 line..

yup...purdy much!

[acalles]

because it would deter from the Audi A3 sales to which that car is roughly of the same chassis and motor, but tuned with the bigger pony power from the factory!...it isn't about competing with other manufacterers in the class, but trying to keep from competing aginst themselves....kinda like Nissan trying to maintain the differences between the 350Z/370Z and the G35/G37 coupe without losing sales to themselves( in a weird kinda way).

dude, no it isn't

the A3 has exactly the same power as the GTI. the only difference is the GTI and FWD A3 has the lower emissions version, which only has a secondary air pump. absolutely no difference in power, the A3q does not have the secondary air due to space constraints. the A4 has more power, but the 2.0t in the A4 is a different engine all together.

They don't need to make high HP cars to compete, HP is just a number. they make engines with a very flexible power band and low lag, it makes for a nicer drive then high HP and lag you see in their competition.

FWIW, with software, I'm actually getting a bit better mileage then was advertised. sticker on the window said 21/28 I'm getting closer to 22/30 and better as it breaks in. but it does drink the gas if I get into the good stuff

[Speedbag]

Even though the Mazda sounds like a total hoot, based on what I've read the GTI is a phenomenal car.

It's been Automobile Magazine's Auto of the Year in 2007 and 2010 if I remember correctly.....

[GregP]

I picked up an Audi A3 for my wife a few weeks back.  If you think the 200hp 2.0T lump is a dog I want to know what your were driving before hand.

You can have it flashed, as mentioned, and get 300 ft. lbs of torque and 250+ hp.  It would be nice but not necessary IMHO.

I took it on the highway for the first time yesterday and the thing kicks 4 banger A$$!  From 75 to 100 mph is lightning fast and buttery smooth.

I'm coming out of the 328i BMW and that is a great car. This thing holds it's own and with the exception of the front wheel drive, I'm getting used to it, I am really happy so far with the car/power plant and go kart handling.

I think the GTI is pretty much the same car. If you can get the car with DSG tranny it's a driver.

[DRKWNG]

VW GTD FTW!

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/car/09q2/2010_volkswagen_gtd_diesel-first_drive_review

Sure would be nice if they would bring that puppy stateside.

[nkryptit]

Picked up the GTI yesterday.  Loving it so far.  I'm going to have to resist the need to mod it for a while, just to get a feel for what, if anything really needs to be done.

Thanks for all the input everyone, I really appreciate it!  I'll post some pics when I get some good ones.