When do you clutch shift?

[ShiftSix]

When clutchless upshifting on my s2r1k how come I find false neutral on occasions?  just not being as rough as i should on it? or what?

[Raux]

what are the shift points for the 696? do you need to match those shiftpoints when you clutchless shift or can you just jam it up or down at any RPM?

[Jetbrett]

When clutchless upshifting on my s2r1k how come I find false neutral on occasions?  just not being as rough as i should on it? or what?

If I find a false neutral it is usually going from 5th to 6th.  I've found these occur when I'm not pulling much in the way of RPM or not putting much pressure on the shift lever.  When I'm accelerating hard and building good RPM's and using steady pressure, I've never had a problem. 

[Spidey]

When clutchless upshifting on my s2r1k how come I find false neutral on occasions?  just not being as rough as i should on it? or what?

You're not being as "rough" as you should.  (That word "rough" makes me uncomfortable).  It makes sense that it'd be between 5 and 6.  You're generally not on the throttle hard when you make that shift.  When you're on the throttle hard, one tends to be more precise about one's shifting.  If you're just cruising around or on the freeway, it's easy to get lazy.  Just focus on affirmative shifts.  Also, consider whether you want to adjust your shift lever a bit lower so that the reach for upshift is shorter.  That way, even when you only put half-effort into your shift, you're more likely to avoid a false neutral.

Raux, there aren't specific shift points.  A lot of them you can figure out by feel.  They're going to depend on how fast your revs are increasing, how you blip the throttle, etc.  They'll also depend on whether you're trying to upshift or downshift.  Please don't "jam" it down.  I know what you mean, but if you think of it as "jamming", you're not going to focus on the necessary smoothness.  If you want to figure out which shift points are comfortble for you, start with upshifts.  Put some pressure on the shift lever, accelerate a wee bit (not too hard), roll off the throttle for a sec and try to upshift.  Play around with it, starting in higher gears (it's easier).  You'll find that you can do it at different RPMs, depending on your level of acceleration and how you roll off the throttle.  Once you've got upshifting mastered, then start playing around with downshifting if you'd like.  It takes a bit more coordination and timing and revs are more important.  G'luck.

[ShiftSix]

haha yeah rough is the wrong word,  it is usualy around 5-6th gear. I just didnt know if around that gear u just need a little more weight on the shifter or what...  tho in my riding i havnt really found a reason to need to fastly shifting from 5th-6th so ill stick to using the clutch for that one.

[w7ck7d]

i use the clutch all the time even in a track day i can still shift fast enough no time loss.And i think its just a matter of how you operate in exact time.

Throttle.
Clutch.
Shifter.

I think this three should always be syncronize...

[Raux]

wellll i did it today.
autobahn coming out of onramp, upshift, 3-4-5-6 no clutch. sooooo smooth. awesome. got brave and tried downshift 6-5 when traffic was slow and light. easy enough. revs came up smooth. did notice you cannot short shift doing this though. bike was like uh uh no way.

[Mountfort]

My brother used to talk about shifting without a clutch on our VW Scirocco when I was a kid. Since then, I've tried in on pretty much everything I drive. I had an old KZ750 and had the clutch cable break when I was far from home. Managed to get it back through traffic without the clutch - had to turn it off at red lights and bomb-start it in 2nd from a running start. Clearly, a goofy stunt, but I was young and broke and towing didn't seem to be an option.

My  S2R has a slipper clutch, and I find it pretty easy going up (1st to 2nd can be rough when accelerating hard) and no problem shifting down from 6th through 3rd. Not sure it's useful, but it is pretty fun.

[corndog67]

I pretty much use the clutch all the time, I clutch the front tire up, I use clutch to shift up, clutch to shift down, I try to ride it fairly easy, no speed shifting, no stomping on the shifter, I don't mean that I ride the bike real slow (at least when it's running), but I try real hard not to break it.  I paid for it.  I will have to pay for it if I break it,  and I will have to fix it myself if I break it, so, my general plan is, don't break it. 

[Goduc]

Well it all depends on what kind of riding you are doing.  I learned in the dirt so clutchless shifting is second nature at this point.  As far as street application I dont really see any point in clutchless downshifting.  I do shift without the clutch any time I am accelerating very hard.  Just so much faster.  Plus false neutrals should only be a problem going from 1 -2.  Crossing neutral can be rough.  Just practice, its fun.

[Greg]

wellll i did it today.
autobahn coming out of onramp, upshift, 3-4-5-6 no clutch. sooooo smooth. awesome. got brave and tried downshift 6-5 when traffic was slow and light. easy enough. revs came up smooth. did notice you cannot short shift doing this though. bike was like uh uh no way.

On my S2R-1000 I find the best way to clutchless downshift is to wait until the revs are around 3,500 and then just blip the throttle while I downshift. When you get it right, it is really smooth.