This is why PEOPLE SUCK!

Started by herm, April 25, 2010, 04:41:22 PM

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herm

i had my front teeth knocked out with a baseball bat in 1991, in Boston. i was a bystander who tried to reason with some guys trying to crash a friends party. if i hadnt ducked, i probably would have had my brains knocked out instead. i was 21.

I dont worry so much about charity/compassion, so much as doing the right thing.
This map is upside down, the plan is written in crayon, and the weather forecast is from 2011.

Veloce-Fino

This is just another example of news media trying to blame violence on video games. Anyone who has ever been in Philadelphia has seen homeless sleeping on the streets and in the parks. Whoever is saying you can tell the difference between dead and sleeping, or dying and drunk/drugged has never been to a major city. The only person at fault in this situation would be the guy who rolled the body, saw the blood, and left. Everyone else was just going about business as usual.
Is this thing on?

GAAN

#47
Quote from: somegirl on April 26, 2010, 11:03:22 AM
The bystander effect has been known about since at least the 60's, so that seems doubtful.  I agree, just a scape goat.

I don't think anyone read your link

The bystander apathy effect is what happened here

but

no one wants to read and understand it


Here is (IMO) a better explaination of it

Darley and Latane Study of the Bystander Apathy Effect



RAT900

I read them and they make reference to the same instance I made to Kitty Genovese

2 issues are at hand here.. there is a distinction between a circumstance that would trigger Samaritan behavior vs. triggering Personal avoidance/flight behavior.

In the instance of the "sleeping/drunk homeless person" people will not risk attack or fatal disease-transmitting bites and spitting to determine if said individual is in crisis.

On the subway one does not know generally if a fight is between two rival gang members, a girlfriend and boyfriend, pimp and hooker etc acting-out
again they will not risk injury disease or death for an uncertain circumstance

also keep in mind that the law abiding populace in most urban areas have been disarmed and lack the tools to equalize a violent circumstance even if the players' roles appear cut-and-dried...the bad guys and the police are the sole carriers of weaponry

NYC Transit undercover often disguise themselves as homeless and ride the trains...if such an individual got into a fray with a "normal" looking pickpocket...what would the judgement call be?

I will be honest...if I saw a person swinging a machete at a crowd I would head in the opposite direction...even if I was carrying....if I interceded I would be charged with vigilantism would be broken financially and would be reviled as an armed lunatic

"Justice/Enforcement" has become the sole province of law-enforcement and they don't like people interfering in their area of operations

in the end, circumstances dictate and drive response.....I was downtown on 9/11 and I saw more courage sacrifice and bravery than I will ever witness again...by the very same people who walk past the homeless and ride the subways and witness altercations and don't jump in

we did not run away from the disaster we went toward it to help

there are no hard and fast rules to human behavior...just myriad exceptions to what some people would like to believe they know about us as a species
This is an insult to the Pez community

GAAN

yes there is

man is inherently selfish and motivated purely by subjective desire

the concept of selflessness is a myth

there is always a personal benefit to any act

be it helpful or harmful

that transient died purely because those involved and those that walked by saw no gain by helping him


ducpainter

"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."



GAAN

Quote from: ducpainter on April 27, 2010, 04:23:23 AM
You're a cynic

because I believe all people are selfish...yes

the rest of the parameters of the definition do not fit


socrates was a cynic


ducpainter

I said...'They refused Jesus too'

He said...'You're not him'
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
 a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent."



Oldfisti

Quote from: Mother on April 27, 2010, 04:21:42 AM

that transient died purely because those involved and those that walked by saw no gain by helping him



That seems to imply there was a conscious decision involved.


With exception of the d-bag who took a picture of the poor guy I doubt anyone had the slightest thought process about the situation and wrote it off as background noise as previously stated.


Quote from: Sinister on November 06, 2008, 12:47:21 PM
It's like I keep saying:  Those who would sacrifice a free range session for a giant beer, deserve neither free range time nor a giant beer.
Quote from: KnightofNi on November 10, 2009, 04:45:16 AM
i have had guys reach back and grab my crotch in an attempt to get around me. i'll either blow in their ear or ask them politely to let go of my wang.

GAAN

Quote from: ducpainter on April 27, 2010, 04:35:30 AM
I said...'They refused Jesus too'

He said...'You're not him'


exactly

GAAN

Quote from: alfisti on April 27, 2010, 04:39:01 AM

That seems to imply there was a conscious decision involved.


With exception of the d-bag who took a picture of the poor guy I doubt anyone had the slightest thought process about the situation and wrote it off as background noise as previously stated.




every person that walked by either looked at the guy, hesitated or stopped and moved on

all conscious decisions to not act

Statler

Mother, while I agree with your selfishness bit, I think you're leaving out an important point...that individuals are satisfied by very different things, so while all being self-interest motivated, the desired individual effect is reached through very different actions.   Thus people's careers of helping others; such as firefighters.
It's still buy a flounder a drink month

herm

how hard is it to make a phone call? the number is really easy to remember, and i bet 99% of the population has a cell phone these days. unless they have an iPhone, there is no excuse for not reaching out.
"help" does not have to be rendering direct aid, or stepping in and putting ones self at risk.

and i understand the avoidance of the homeless/drunk stereotype, so most of those who walked by the guy are off the hook. but not all of them.

those type of people suck.

as far as the argument about vigilantism vs. law enforcement.....see the part about making a phone call.

@ Statler: firefighter are in it for the thrill, not the feel good....
This map is upside down, the plan is written in crayon, and the weather forecast is from 2011.

swampduc

Quote from: He Man on April 26, 2010, 12:19:56 PM
Your quoting me, so what is it your trying to say to me?
[snip]

The only thing i have to say is, bums dont normally collapse in the middle of the sidewalk. Thats about the only thing I can say that woudl throw a red flag for me. And even then id approach with caution. Id poke him iwth my foot and scream at him. Then call the cops, once they get the call, im bouncing.

I quoted you because I disagreed with your statement. Clear enough? Or is that reasoning too convoluted?

As to whether I'm a better person than you, again, let me make it clear: I don't know, and I don't give a rat's ass. I'm not living my life trying to compete with you or anyone else. I just do what I think is right.

I included the last part of your statement because I think that what you said there is the right thing to do, at the least. I personally might do more, but I don't think there's anything wrong with at least calling the cops, as you said you would.
Respeta mi autoridad!

GAAN

Quote from: Statler on April 27, 2010, 05:42:45 AM
Mother, while I agree with your selfishness bit, I think you're leaving out an important point...that individuals are satisfied by very different things, so while all being self-interest motivated, the desired individual effect is reached through very different actions.   Thus people's careers of helping others; such as firefighters.

No we agree completely, i just am not clear at times

I mentioned subjective desire

that is me saying folks are driven by different things



as to the fireman thing

that organization has a very good PR guy with the assistance of positive public opinion

the individuals are a completely different story