Carrying Backpacks Inside Stores

[Popeye the Sailor]

Apparently you don't. Shopkeepers right.

What is the shopkeepers right?

[mstevens]

Normally, I don't mind checking anything they want me to check.

My wife and I once stood in line to get into Harrod's (I know, but she'd never been there before...) with our 2 year-old. They wanted us to check our small "diaper bag" (containing tantrum-derailing devices, mostly Thomas the Tank Engine-related) and her even smaller purse. She's still never been in Harrod's.

It's their right to ask me to check stuff. It's my right not to patronize the store. It's not my license to act like an asshat.

[junior varsity]

What is the shopkeepers right?

torts! - in Texas, a shopkeeper may detain a person under reasonable suspicion that they are stealing. There are caveats and exceptions and lots of examples where it goes wrong, but if you show up with bag, and they suspect you are loading it full of cds, they may question you and in some cases look in the bag - they may certainly not tackle you, de-pants you and investigate your rectum (unless you make special requests, but that's neither here, nor there)

There are some pretty good cases where walmart gets sued on these grounds i read - sometimes they prevail, other times they do not.  i like a good "suin' walmart" case.

[junior varsity]

This is a general summary, and of course should never be used as legal advice: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_imprisonment#Shopkeeper.27s_Privilege

[mstevens]

they may certainly not tackle you, de-pants you and investigate your rectum (unless you make special requests, but that's neither here, nor there)

I'm pretty sure such a request would be extra-illegal in Texas

[Popeye the Sailor]

torts! - in Texas, a shopkeeper may detain a person under reasonable suspicion that they are stealing. There are caveats and exceptions and lots of examples where it goes wrong, but if you show up with bag, and they suspect you are loading it full of cds, they may question you and in some cases look in the bag - they may certainly not tackle you, de-pants you and investigate your rectum (unless you make special requests, but that's neither here, nor there)

There are some pretty good cases where walmart gets sued on these grounds i read - sometimes they prevail, other times they do not.  i like a good "suin' walmart" case.

The guy you were telling that he doesn't know his rights lives in Brisbane.....

[junior varsity]

I'm pretty sure such a request would be extra-illegal in Texas

you get double secret probation.

The guy you were telling that he doesn't know his rights lives in Brisbane.....

touche' but many places have such a rule - can you imagine being a store owner deprived of the ability to detain somebody you think is robbing you?!

[Popeye the Sailor]

touche' but many places have such a rule - can you imagine being a store owner deprived of the ability to detain somebody you think is robbing you?!

There is a difference between suspecting me of theft and wanting to search my bag because I have one.

If you think I stole something, call the cops-I'll wait. If you just want to check, then no, I won't let you. I also don't have to show my receipt, unless I sign something stating I will (this applies to places like Costco, which require it).

[Statler]

despite my previous posts, since the thread started discussing searching etc....I have to say I have never been stopped, touched, searched, or had someone look inside a bag I am holding...despite being asked.    Then I become a bit of a lawyer.  (although always friendly in a sarcastic sort of way).   

but now we're drifting in to completely not motorcycle related stuff about everyday shopping.

[Spidey]

in some cases look in the bag

For example, Cal. Penal Code Sec. 490.5(f)(4) says that merchants can do a limited search of bags but not clothing.  A detained person can say "no" all they want, but the merchant can still search 'em.  On the flip side, if the merchants gets it wrong and they didn't have reasonable suspicion for the search, you can sue 'em for money damages.  Woohoo!!  More lawsuits!!!   

As an alternative to litigation (and in an attempt to bring this back to moto talk), after you've been released you can just get your bike, ride it into the store and do a burn-out at the checkstand.  

[junior varsity]

hey, there's app for that!

i mean a video. where that guy chucks something at the guy on the fitty.

[Spidey]

Yop.     [moto]   

Pitbikes at Walmart?

[NFG]

Apparently you don't. Shopkeepers right.

As has been mentioned, I am in Australia.  The same rules apply in Canada, where I'm from: if they reasonably suspect you've been loading the bag with CDs, they can, within limits, be more forceful about it.  I do not appreciate my stuff being fondled by inattentive losers just because I have a backpack for my camera, so I put up a fight.  I also stop shopping at places that demand to search my bag as a matter of course.  Legally I am not required to allow you to, so I will not.  But I get tired of fighting for it, so I avoid it instead.

I'd be surprised if it wasn't this way in many US states as well.  Random or mandatory bag searches are voluntary, they have to have a reasonable suspicion before they're legally able to restrain you, and AFAIK the only thing they're allowed to do is hold you until the police arrive.  

As for the shopkeeper's right...  Yeah, that's working really well in the USA where so many attempts to stop thieves ends up with the staff member getting fired or reprimanded for daring to stop the crook.  Utter bullshit, IMO.  

I have found that I am pestered less often when I have my helmet with me.  A lot of people see it, and (I assume) recognize my inability to leave anything with the vehicle, so they leave me alone.  

[junior varsity]

i'm not sure how we know the store worker is an inattentive loser, but it seems like you got some hostility towards people's businesses. They could just say "no bags allowed inside" and you'd be happy?

[NFG]

i'm not sure how we know the store worker is an inattentive loser, but it seems like you got some hostility towards people's businesses. They could just say "no bags allowed inside" and you'd be happy?

To be clear, I do not refer to "people's businesses".  These are large chains, grocery and department stores.  The small shops are too happy to have customers at all to risk accusing them of theft every time they enter the place.

But yeah, I'm angry, because they lie.  They put 'condition of entry' signs by the door that say they can check your bag, but these are not legally true.  Then, when you leave, management has convinced these minimum-wage grunts that it IS legal, and so I'm stuck between standing up for my rights and ruining this kid's day, or letting them whittle away whatever personal freedoms I've got left.  I didn't steal anything, and I don't appreciate people rummaging through my gear without cause.

Yeah, I'm outraged by it.  They lie, they accuse, and they want me to be complicit?  No way.