Merits of fool proof design (sss hub / wheel design)

[Popeye the Sailor]

This would not add any weight.

[He Man]

Wouldnt it be easier if you just made those 4 slots slightly smaller? You gain what maybe an oz or 2 of weight? And its not like your trying to shave a shitton of weight. your using a cast wheel.

Is the forged SSS wheels designed the same way? if they are and you wanted them to be uniform, why couldnt you just jam 1 rubber stop in there?

[DarkStaR]

...or make a wheel with 8 to 12 round holes (no "slotted holes") rather than just the 4 round holes.  That way, no matter how it's mounted, it's still right, and still not too much solid material left over...for the weight conscious.

All in all, it doesn't really matter at this point, what's done is done.

Don't FUBAR it on installation, be attentive to anything odd going on with the bike, and all should be good.

Usually when it's mounted wrong, there are some signs...such as the knocking noise upon first acceleration/braking.

[Speeddog]

More of a generalization than a comment specifically to this issue, but "idiot-proof" is impossible.
"Idiot-resistant" is possible.

There's some fundamental design issues that have been touched on, but bear analysis IMO.

One is the frequency/possibility of a particular operation.
Along with that is the expected skill level of the person performing the operation.

As a first example, unlocking the seat.
During the life of the motorcycle, it's certainly going to get done, and done by the owner.

Opposite end of the spectrum, adjusting the shims to correctly preload the crankshaft bearings.
During the life of the motorcycle, chances are low that it'll ever be done at all, and chances even lower that it'll be the owner doing it.

IMO, the rear wheel installation is *way* closer to unlocking the seat than shimming the crank.
So definitely needs more of the one-way-only assembly.

[He Man]

or you can just not put any pins at all and let it rotate, less resistance = more power.

We should get Shervin RRR's opinion on this.

i like speed dogs answer.

though its too late...actually how is the design on the 1098 and the new 796 and 1100? is the deisng the same way?

[mitt]

...or make a wheel with 8 to 12 round holes (no "slotted holes") rather than just the 4 round holes.  That way, no matter how it's mounted, it's still right, and still not too much solid material left over...for the weight conscious.

That was exactly my thought as wheel.  Put a dozen holes in the hub, so the wheel could go on in any 30 degree orientation.

Or, even make the slots through holes instead of blind holes, so you could detect easier the pins in the wrong location.

mitt

[jim_0068]

While i understand and respect the premise of this argument i still say it's designed fine. As someone else said, 4 pegs and 4 round holes with 4 other round huge freakn' slots. I mean it's a wheel for freak sake, why would you put in slots? I mean didn't we all learn as children with building blocks: round goes into round, square into square?

Now i am no engineer lover, i hate most in fact because when engineers design stuff for automotive applications, most of the time they don't take into account what the mechanic has to go through to do some kind of replacement and something that should take an hour turns into 2 or more for some dumb design. However in this case with the wheel, i would say it doesn't count.

Can you make a mistake and put it in the slots instead of the holes? Sure, but either way whether you are a seasoned mechanic, a DIYer, or a first timer if you do it i'm still going to call you a moron LOL.

[Popeye the Sailor]

So lemme get this straight.

While i understand and respect the premise of this argument i still say it's designed fine. As someone else said, 4 pegs and 4 round holes with 4 other round huge freakn' slots. I mean it's a wheel for freak sake, why would you put in slots? I mean didn't we all learn as children with building blocks: round goes into round, square into square?

This design is fine despite no one having taken into account how to make it more friendly to those who may need to work on it.

Now i am no engineer lover, i hate most in fact because when engineers design stuff for automotive applications, most of the time they don't take into account what the mechanic has to go through to do some kind of replacement and something that should take an hour turns into 2 or more for some dumb design. However in this case with the wheel, i would say it doesn't count.

Yet all other instances when no one takes into account how to make things more friendly to those who may need to work on them are not okay.

[Triple J]

Well, I'm an engineer...and I don't think it is a bad design.  

I've removed my wheels countless times, and have always lined up the pins and holes when re-installing. It's dead obvious that is what needs to be done...and I'm no mechanic.

That said, it would be easy to fix like others have said...but you can't call it a bad design because the engineer failed to account for every single instance of stupidity of others. Ducati engineers probably design their bikes to be worked on by certified Ducati mechanics...not some moron in their garage (like me  ).

[Triple J]

Now i am no engineer lover, i hate most in fact because when engineers design stuff for automotive applications, most of the time they don't take into account what the mechanic has to go through to do some kind of replacement and something that should take an hour turns into 2 or more for some dumb design. However in this case with the wheel, i would say it doesn't count.

FYI...engineering designs are often controlled by bean counters...or they at least have heavy input.

Bean counters care about production costs first...then they care about maintenance costs (maybe).

If the engineer can design a part that can be fabricated and installed (originally) cheaper...then they will usually be directed to do so. So what if it takes twice as long to replace or perform maintenance on that part down the road. Initial production costs are what matters. Besides...if it takes twice as long to fix, then that's twice as much the factory mechanic can charge the buyer...more money for the auto company/dealer!  Sure, it backfires during the warranty period...but afterwards it's all just more profit.

[Popeye the Sailor]

Bean counters get more say.


I've had a flawless fix to a known product with issues shot down because it added a five cents per item.


I passed those savings on to you.

[ducpainter]

Bean counters get more say.


I've had a flawless fix to a known product with issues shot down because it added a five cents per item.


I passed those savings on to you.

Bean counters definitely get more say in automotive design.

It's all about production cost. They don't give a rats ass about maintenance.

[Popeye the Sailor]

Bean counters definitely get more say in automotive design.

It's all about production cost. They don't give a rats ass about maintenance.

In all honesty, neither do I.


No one buys it because it's easy for their mechanic to work on.



I ain't working on it either. 

[ducpainter]

In all honesty, neither do I.


No one buys it because it's easy for their mechanic to work on.



I ain't working on it either. 

For an extra $.50...

they could put a dealio on a dashboard to make it flip over to work on.

I hate all you mothermake the beast with two backsing pencil pushers.

Monday will come for you guys.

[GAAN]

why not offset a pin?

kinda like on a flywheel