1100S Darmah Project Bike [PICS & Questions]

[ungeheuer]

1) I'ld check the lever adjustment first, it's adjustable, but the further in you put it, the less separation will occur.

4) Double check #1.  I have seen so many Dry clutches with this issue simply because the user adjusted the lever so close to the bar that it was IMPOSSIBLE to separate the plates. You want enough reach for separation to occur. It won't if you don't have enough.

I been sayin' this for days now.  If you have the aftermarket lever adjusted all the way out like we're sayin...... then if it were me... the next thing I would do is revert back to the stock lever.  Much less piss-farting around than changing back to the stock slave.... 

[mattc7]

1&4) I've got the lever all the way out away from the bar so that it has the maximum movement when I pull it in.  I don't have any further to go on that.
3) Out of $$ for that kind of upgrade, but I'll certainly keep it in mind.
2) Now that's the kind of idea I was wondering about.  But I've gotta keep an eye on the clutch not engaging fully either if I put a washer there right?  And could I put a washer in the EVO slave behind the smaller bearing in it -- same effect right?

I'ld be hesitant to put anything in the slave.   The last thing you'ld want to do is have a sealing issue there. It's not fun to push the bike or wait for roadside because you made a mistake.  I'm sure it's possible, but I wouldn't test it.  There's nothing important between the PP and the P/O bearing, so putting a washer there is nothing at all. 

Did you make sure that your free-play adjuster is properly set? It's the little nut on the pushpin for the plunger of the master.

[junior varsity]

use a smaller piston slave.

the big pistons slave sell because people think they will be better. it is not because they work better. While the clutch pull may be lessened, I find that the engagement is quicker and at a different part of the lever range.

When slaves used to begin leaking almost immediately, an aftermarket slave was a great thing to buy. Its just not the same situation as it was. Its a bling piece with a very small change in actual performance.

[He Man]

use a smaller piston slave.

the big pistons slave sell because people think they will be better. it is not because they work better. While the clutch pull may be lessened, I find that the engagement is quicker and at a different part of the lever range.

When slaves used to begin leaking almost immediately, an aftermarket slave was a great thing to buy. Its just not the same situation as it was. Its a bling piece with a very small change in actual performance.

isnt the 28.5mm the smaller piston slave, the 30.5mm is the bigger one.

Levers arent an issue when you have them adjusted all the way out. And theres nothing wrong with puttin a spacer behind the bearing on the stock slave. Thats how they use to come with the shorter push rods for the older bikes. I used to use a few washers stacked up to get the right height for complete disengagement.

[desmoworks]

When slaves used to begin leaking almost immediately, an aftermarket slave was a great thing to buy. Its just not the same situation as it was. Its a bling piece with a very small change in actual performance.

The mechanical change is still the same - 30mm slave requires 25% less force, 28mm slave a bit less, etc... as the stock slave piston diameter never changed. The design of the stock slave did though and it seals better now so as you said so there are virtually no more leaking slaves like there used to be. I can't remember the last time I heard of an OEM slave cylinder (made after 2001) leaking!

I have a bad left wrist from a snowboarding mishap so I have to use the largest slave possible to make the stress as little as possible on my wrist - otherwise I'm dying at the end of a day of riding!

Bling is definitely the #1 motivation on these guys though 

[BellissiMoto]

You know why I hate the little problems the most?

Because they are the hardest to find.


That said, since you have adjusted your clutch lever, and bled the system, there is little else it could be with regards to why your clutch is not getting pushed out far enough.

Certainly you can try switching clutch slaves or levers, but both of those cost money that you shouldn't have to spend...


Since this problem is still kind of vague, I would try to isolate it a little more first.

When you pull in the clutch lever, with the bike in gear, does the clutch still feel engaged? Or is the bike happy and neutral?

This should be enough to tell you if your problem is somewhere with regards to the clutch not being able to open enough (basically lever or slave).

If the bike acts correct while the lever is pulled in, then you should have the correct amount of piston travel and your problem is probably at the rearsets.

So where are we with regards to other solutions?

Well, I unfortunately do not have any first hand experience with the Rizoma rearsets on the M1100, so I can't tell you about the position of the shift lever and if that is what is causing your problem, and as far as using a spacer in the slave...

I wouldn't recommend it except perhaps as a last resort, because it would have to be the perfect depth or you will find your clutch slightly engaged and slipping under acceleration (which is much worse than your current problem).



Hope some of this helped, and make sure and post up some pictures of the complete bike!

[He Man]

Regardless the piston travels a certain distance that will disengage the clutch per each pump of the clutch lever. As long as this distance is enough to disengage the clutch, then you should be able to find neutral. The distance it travels will change if there are other fluids in the system, or air... but you bleed the clutch.

The piston will set it self against the push rod no matter what so if its a little short, a little long the piston will jsut sit further foward or further back, but it will still travel the same amount.

Putting in shims is okay if the rod is just simply not long enough. but it would have to be a significant difference in the length of the rod to justify it...

Something doesnt add up....

Another way to see if its fully disengaging is to look at the pressure plate while in neutral and cluthc lever ALL The way in. ideally,the pressure plate should seperate enough so it stops spinning completely, or is barely spinning and can be stopped with a light touch, if it is spinning in neutral, it just means that theres enough force so the friction plates are dragging the whole system along ( its not fully disengaged....)

[Amlethae]

Another way to see if its fully disengaging is to look at the pressure plate while in neutral and cluthc lever ALL The way in. ideally,the pressure plate should seperate enough so it stops spinning completely, or is barely spinning and can be stopped with a light touch, if it is spinning in neutral, it just means that theres enough force so the friction plates are dragging the whole system along ( its not fully disengaged....)

Ah hah!  This is something I didn't know because it's my first dry clutch and the EVR is the first time I've watched an open dry clutch.  Sooo in neutral with the clutch lever all the way in, the pressure plate does continue to spin!.  So I need to look for the right adjustments so that this doesn't happen and it'll tell me if I've got it.  Good to know!

I've found that adjusting the pivot point as well as the lever reach is making a difference... the EVO III levers I got from Bellissimoto allow me to adjust both.  So with the pivot point all the way out (all the way to the left) and the reach at it's max, I am able to get it into neutral.  Only problem with that is that the maxed pivot point position moves when the lever is pulled in because of the angles... and this doesn't seem good for the lever.

Getting closer but yeah this is a bugger.

[He Man]

u can have it spin but be close to fully disengaged, so as long as u can stop it easily with a finger, i would say dont worry to much about it.


THats not an invitation to shove your hand in the clutch and break your finger though!!!!! Im sure youre smart enough to realize when the clutch is not disengaged and you can get hurt.

[BellissiMoto]

Ah hah!  This is something I didn't know because it's my first dry clutch and the EVR is the first time I've watched an open dry clutch.  Sooo in neutral with the clutch lever all the way in, the pressure plate does continue to spin!.  So I need to look for the right adjustments so that this doesn't happen and it'll tell me if I've got it.  Good to know!

I should have been more specific, sorry.

It is natural for the clutch plate to spin with the lever pulled in, what I meant was if you could feel the clutch still engaged with the lever pulled in all the way, like as though the bike still wanted to creep forward under it's own power, or if the idle became rough because of that semi-engagement.

[RAT900]

stack height

pressure plate index mark alignment with the correct spring post (may not apply to newer models)

residual air (every month I do a quick one squeeze bleed on the slave cylinder)  don't pump it up let it sit overnight...

attach hose to bleed nipple begin to depress lever while opening the valve....close valve and then release lever

if you pump the handle a lot first you will disperse the air bubbles back into the fluid...undisturbed they will regather where you want them up by the bleeder valve

[mattc7]

If you're going to end up trying a spacer, watch the clutch as you pull in the lever. Note how far the lever keeps being released from when you see the pressure plate stop moving. I assume without knowledge of the EVR slipper, that there's spring pressure holding the plate down (this I know, i don't assume). But that the springs are most likely not specialized to the M1100 (this I assume).

You are most likely getting 170hp+ worth of pp holding down power, while only putting out 90hp.  There's a good chance for some safe marginal decrease in the amount of force needed to maintain the back-torque from your motor compared to that of the 1198/1098 etc. 

Based on this, it should be safe to space the clutch slightly, but not much.  You don't need much, however, as very little travel is needed to get complete disengagement. I'ld double check stack height as well, and see if you can get a slightly thinner aluminum plate to replace one of the ones in your pack. This will give alittle extra clearance as well when needed.

[Amlethae]

You are most likely getting 170hp+ worth of pp holding down power, while only putting out 90hp.  There's a good chance for some safe marginal decrease in the amount of force needed to maintain the back-torque from your motor compared to that of the 1198/1098 etc. 

This is very interesting.  I did get the EVR stainless spring pack for it, I wonder if I couldn't get away with some "weaker" springs to lighten the clutch pull... does anyone make such a thing specifically for Monsters vs. 1x98s?


I want to thank everyone for your thoughts and help on this issue.  I'm happy to report that I've got it sorted out now and the shifting is like butter and I can get into neutral at stoplights quite easily!  The solution was to adjust the pivot point on my EVO III lever all the way out and then to put in a rubber tube between the pivot point holder and the lever to keep the point from shifting when pulling in the lever... I'll post pictures tomorrow to explain what the hell I'm talking about.  It's totally safe and works like a charm without any spacers needed on the push-rod!

[mattc7]

shouldn't be a problem removing 2 of the 6 opposing springs.  Once again, no firsthand EVR knowledge, but I haven't seen a competitor yet where you couldn't.